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Date: Sun, 15 May 94 22:00:03 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #601: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 601  7533 11-May-1994 David Johnson    Shall Not Perish 12 - Tech & SW << Gent
 601  7534 11-May-1994 Matt             Re: TML biweekly: Msgs 7504-7514 V44#9 
 601  7535 11-May-1994 David Johnson    Shall Not Perish 13 - RQS & SW << Gentl
 601  7536 12-May-1994 pihlab@cbr.hhcs  RE: some ideas <<                   I N
 601  7537 12-May-1994 PPUGLIESE@pimac  Sword Worlds History vs US History << F
 601  7538 12-May-1994 Stewart Eyres    L'oeul d'Dieu 3010 B-98A510-B N Ni, Wa,
 601  7539 12-May-1994 Peter H. Brento  Shiela-X, NPC extrodinaire << Shiela-X 
 601  7540 12-May-1994 mgood@MIT.EDU    Deep Space Jumps << djohnson@geds01.jsc
 601  7541 12-May-1994 Goldman of Chao  NPC exchange... << Cool idea.  I'll hav
 601  7542 12-May-1994 Steven M Bonnev  Sword Worlds << David Johnson writes:
 601  7543 12-May-1994 Andy Lilly       Green Virus << Just a quick thought, do
 601  7544 12-May-1994 Steven M Bonnev  RQS << PBJuzyk writes:

------------------------------

Bundle: 601
Archive-Message-Number: 7533
Date: Wed, 11 May 94 19:13:22 CDT
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Shall Not Perish 12 - Tech & SW

Gentlesophonts:

First off, my cr0.02 about deep space jumps and refueling.  (Please keep
in mind my avowed aversion to rules details.)

I've always considered that jump calculations use gravity wells as `targets'.
The better your jump drive (jump-2 over jump-1, say) and/or the better your
navigator (navigation-2 over navigation-1, say) the better you are at
`targeting' a specific gravity well.  Furthermore, the stronger a gravity
well (i.e. a star over a gas giant or giant over a rocky planet) the easier
it is to target  (it's also `stronger' if you're closer).  Similarly, the
lesser the `interference' of other gravity wells (no similarly or larger
massed objects in the vicinity - and `vicinity' increases with mass) the
easier a specific gravity well is to target.

What this means is that in a typical system the largest star will be the 
easiest target.  Jumps from outside the system will require higher jump
numbers and/or higher skilled navigators to target smaller bodies like
gas giants and planets (and at least the star's well gets me `targeting'
in the general vicinity).  The gas giants in a binary or trinary system
will be more difficult to target than those in a solitary system.  Similarly,
the planets in a system with several giants will be more difficult to target
than those in a system with only one giant.

With this premise `coordinated jumps' are quite difficult which seems to
mesh with canonical thinking.  My fleet can probably all emerge in orbit
about a system's major gas giant but it will have to maneuver afterwards
to regain its formation.

Jumps to deep space are difficult because there is no gravity well to serve
as a target.  Even if I stage some sort of refueling post it will be
difficult to get close - the lack of any other significant gravity wells
in the vicinity helps but I'm still targeting something *much* less
massive than a star, gas giant or planet.  It's possible but some ships
are going to emerge at a distance from the staging target that is beyond
the range of their maneuver drives/life support.  Fuel drones will get
there eventually since they don't have to worry about running out of
recycled air.  (I guess in this d**med New Era they'll run out of fuel too!)
As I build up fuel at the staging depot my gravity well will increase
making it easier to target but this will still be much more difficult than
jumping to a star system.

That's the rationale.  I don't have any specific rules to back it up.
Basically, if the ref wants them to make it they will, and if she doesn't,
they won't.  IMHO, that's role-playing.


From Tuesday night, Hans Rancke <rancke@diku.dk> writes:

> Dominate how? And how quick is quickly?

Well, something like what all this *Smash and Grab* stuff is supposed to
be about for those Sword World wannabees in the Reformation Coalition.
I, King David I of Sacnoth, send my TL 12 fleet down to Gram, shoot up
the capital, drop a few `planetbusters', execute the King of Gram and
his family, set up some disguntled duke as king, and send emmissaries 
to the other Sword Worlds expressing my sincerest hopes that I won't
need to visit their world next.

> How would this affect the inter-planet dealings? Individual Sword Worlds 
> may be feudal technocracies, but the Confederation itself is a  -  well,
> a confederation ;-)

The Confederation is really little more than a mutual-defense pact set up
to protect the Sword Worlds from Imperial incursions and to permit joint
`defensive' operations against the Darrians.  Think more of NATO
than the European Union.

> Ah, but thats the whole point. You don't have the factories because you can
> buy your TL 12 stuff cheaper from Sacnoth than you can build them yourself.

Sure, I do this if I value cheaper products over dependence upon Sacnoth
(or whatever world currently is on an `up' cycle).  If I'm as smart as the
Japanese I don't get caught in this trap.

> And you don't build that ship yourself becuase it's cheaper to buy it from
> Sacnoth, too. This also impose a natural restriction on Sacnoth's ability to 
> dominate the Confederation: If they become too expensive the other worlds 
> _will_ build TL 12 factories  -  which will propably trigger a recession on 
> Sacnoth and close down a lot of industry  -  quite possibly enough to drop 
> Sacnoth a TL in the process. That's what I mean by economic cycles.

There are other ways for Sacnoth to preserve its dominance.  The technology
of the US is largely available to Latin American nations.  Unfortunately,
many of these nations lack the stability, primarily political, required to
support a similar level of economic and technological achievement.  Fostering
this instability has been standard American policy for nearly a century.
One of the reasons Central Americans who can't own American cars don't build
their own factories is that the US military drops in every once and a 
while to topple the local government.  When we're not doing that we're
supplying arms to some `disgruntled duke' who keeps the fires of instability
burning.  We are able to do this because we have the will and a significant
technological advantage.  The other Sword Worlds won't be able to `gang
up' on Sacnoth for the same reason that everyone from the Rio Grande to
Tierra del Fuego hasn't `ganged up' on the US.

> On the contrary, there is a lot of intergration. That's why their economies
> can affect each other that way. What they don't have is much economic 
> _control_. Each world will do what seems best for itself.

If the King of Gram is equipping his navy with TL 12 equipment built on
Sacnoth then he's *not* doing what's best for Gram and his fief-holders
*ought* to depose him.
 
> How do you know that? By that logic the independent worlds along the edge
> of the Imperium should have fallen to the Imperium long ago too. They are
> certainly even weaker than the Confederation.

Well, except these other worlds don't keep invading the Imperium.  Clearly,
the Sword Worlds are able to coordinate their efforts well enough to fend
off not only Imperial military efforts to neutralized them but political
and economic efforts as well.  The Imperium has not been doing to the Sword
Worlds what I've described for the US in Latin America and suggested for
Sacnoth within the Confederation.  If they've tried, it hasn't worked or
the Sword Worlds wouldn't keep joining the Outworld Coalitions.  The Zhodani
may be a factor (although the alliance between the Zhos and the Sword
Worlds is one of convenience - there's little love for the Zhodani among
the Sword Worlds people) but I suspect there must be a great deal of political
and economic cooperation among the Sword Worlds to have permitted them
to remain independent.

Ooops!  Maybe I've made your point.  Maybe this is why Sacnoth doesn't
just take over!  :-o  But then again, if relations among the Sword Worlds
are friendly then they ought to see some advantage in several high-tech
worlds with class A starports.  Maybe there is some sort of negotiated
`balance of power': Sacnoth gets the high tech and Gram gets the shipyard?
(But don't the shipbuilding rules state that any world can build ships for
its own navy regardless of starport class?)

> (Do me a favour and describe how a feudal technocracy functions. Of all the
> government types that's the one I've never been quite clear about. I have
> a vague idea, but I can't quite see how it would work in practice). Anyway,
> as I said above, the Confederation is not one.

Well, first, the Confederation is nothing more than a bunch of cooperating
feudal technocracies (with some exceptions).

Second, keep in mind that, IMHO, GDW has never gotten the feudal technocracy
aspect of the Sword Worlds right.  The canonical take on this government
type has been merely a `high-tech' aristocracy.

A feudal system is one in which ruling authority is granted to a specific
individual by others who provide support to that individual in return for
his efforts at coordinating their collective activities.  In medieval
times this was centered around common defense.  The fief-holders provided
military and economic support to the `lord' and in return he used these
common forces to protect each of them from `barbarians' and such.  In a
technocracy these efforts are not limited to military affairs but are
focused on the entire range of technological activities.  The `lord' is
essentially the `chairman of the board' of a huge conglomerate.  He
coordinates the activites of manufacturers, distributors, financiers,
retailers, etc. so that each can function in the marketplace.  It's something
like the Japanese kieritsu(sp?).  In the case of the Sword Worlds this
sort of thing is happening on a planetary scale.  Every technological (and
economic) interest on Sacnoth holds `fealty' to the King.

Another good way to look at this is as a `plutocracy'.  The economic elites
(`technocrats' in a high-tech society) are also the political elites.  Unlike
conventional Western democracies (some might argue this point), there is
no separation between politcal power and economic power.  In the US we have
as much separation of `business and state' as we do of `church and state'
but in a technocracy this is not the case.  It's not like the `state-
controlled' economies of the old East bloc - it's still a `capitalist' system.
If your `company' or `fief' goes sour your political influence does as well
(because you can no longer support your `liege').  Again, the Japanese
system - if you ignore the politcal government - is a good model.

> >Well, if this was the case, why wasn't Sacnoth the capital at that point?
> 
> Because it was only one of 20+ worlds and the rest wanted it differently?

Maybe, but again, if I'm the King of Sacnoth my TL advantage permits me
to pretty much `smash and grab' at will.

> >Leadership clearly fluctuates among the Sword Worlds so ought not these
> >fluctuations be tied to any fluctuations in technology?  
> 
> Why should it? It is tied to political power. One source of political power
> is technology, but it's not the only one.

Now you see that in a feudal technocracy, technological power *is* political
power.

> Besides, the leadership dosen't
> fluctuate all that much. The Sword Worlds had been led by Gram for centuries 
> in 1120.

A good point.  I can't explain it.  As I understand it I don't see how any
world but the technological leader can be the dominant world.  (And Gram is
clearly mentioned as `dominating' the Sword Worlds.)  Maybe the Zhodani
influence is a factor but it seems to me that the anti-Zhodani sentiments
in the Sword Worlds ought to work against this.  (The Contact article on
the Sword Worlds from *JTAS* mentions the anti-Zhodani sentiment.)

> Elucidate please. I'm not trying to be snide, I actually can't see why that
> should affect the inter-planet relationships.

Hope my explanation of a feudal technocracy helped.  I don't see any specific
reason why it should apply to inter-world relations except that since many
Sword Worlds are feudal technocracies I would expect them to take a similar
approach to inter-world affairs.  I just don't see a bunch of economic barons
voting and negotiating joint communiques.

> Oh, dear! You really have a gamer's mentality, don't you? (And, yes, here I
> am being snide ;-)

Yes, I admit it.  I want the Sword Worlds to be as fractious and quarrelsome
as they were in Piper's *Space Viking*.  You see, since `my' Sword Worlds
have always been that way I *really* have no use for the rehashed Space
Viking-wannabees of the Reformation Coalition.

(Speaking of rehashing Piper, does anyone remember how much that Amber Zone
article about the `rogue' Sword Worlds captain in the 800-ton mercenary
cruiser from the post-5FW war *JTAS* seemed *so* familiar to the plot of
*Space Viking*?  You know, the Sword Worlder who had (in this case) her
fiance killed just as they were to be married and so sold the family
estate to buy a ship and go hunting for the killer?)

> The Sword Worlds have had their civil wars, true, but
> they don't have them twice a decade. I think they've had four or five in
> 15 centuries.

Another good point but only because I don't think the Sword Worlds have
been portrayed sensibly since the beginning.

> Maybe the Sacnoth 
> leaders think a destructive stalemate would destroy too much. And, as
> I've mentioned above, if Sacnoth dosen't sell those ships then the other
> worlds _will_ build the factories to make the parts and build their own. If 
> that's the way it works, then the only reason why the other worlds are not 
> TL 12 is precisely that Sacnoth IS selling them ships and spare parts.

Maybe, but keep in mind the US policy in Latin America.  Sacnoth doesn't
*need* to dominate militarily in order to dominate.  Especially if the
economies are as integrated as you've described then the feudal technocracy
extends *across* the subsector and there ought to arise someone at the
top and that someone ought to be the highest tech world.

> > This entire `technological cycles' idea seems to me to be more and more
> > difficult to rationalize.
> 
> Did I help?

Well, it seems to explain the way the Sword Worlds have been portrayed better
than how I *think* they *ought* to be portrayed.  :-)  I guess I need to
understand what causes these cycles - why doesn't this occur in the Imperium?

I'm sitting on the fence here.  I guess I'm struggling with those differences
in the Sword Worlds that were introduced either to keep them `different' 
from Piper's novel or just because whomever `created' them wasn't really as
much of a Sword Worlds fanatic as I am.  In either case, I just don't 
think the differing TLs and lack of several starports in the Sword Worlds
makes sense and I'd like to `fix' in in TNE.

Thanks, Hans, for the chance to work through this.  I hope it continues.

Peace,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

------------------------------

Bundle: 601
Archive-Message-Number: 7534
From: msh9848@hertz.njit.edu (Matt)
Subject: Re: TML biweekly: Msgs 7504-7514 V44#9
Date: Wed, 11 May 94 21:32:17 EDT


Unsubscribe. 


------------------------------

Bundle: 601
Archive-Message-Number: 7535
Date: Wed, 11 May 94 22:18:56 CDT
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Shall Not Perish 13 - RQS & SW

Gentlesophonts:

From Wednesday night, PBJuzyk <psualum@aol.com> writes:

> Sinzarmes

Thanks for the data on this Regina subsector line.

> Regency Quarantine Service

Great stuff here!  A fantastic expansion of *Shall Not Perish*!

> Finally should incoming hostile forces overcome an RQS base there must
> be some means for notifying other nearby systems.

Yes, this is a must!  I would only suggest that an initial `jump drone' is
dispatched as soon as the in-system forces are engaged by a hostile force -
just in case things go poorly you wouldn't want the drone not to be
dispatched at all.  Better to have the folks at the next base prematurely
worried than surprised.

> Next:  The RQS in 1200 and beyond.

I can't wait!  More, more!

> 	- ship building outside the Regency probably increased and
> starport quality with it.  To successfully equip the RQS ships were
> needed, ships not available from the Imperium.  The Regency would need
> nearly all of its shipyards to produce RQS ships.  Civilians would have
> to go elsewhere and initially that would probably be to Gram in the
> Sword Wlds and Mire & Jacent in the darrian Confederation.  An effort to
> upgrade other starports to capture a share in this new market would be
> made by the Sword Wlds, Darrians, Arden & Border Wlds.

This is a great rationale for the improvement of starports in the Sword
Worlds.  I can just see the Deneb Information Service (DIS) news brief
now:  "Oberlindes Lines Announces Shipbuilding Contract with Gorram
Yards on Gram/Sword Worlds".

Happy Travelling,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

------------------------------

Bundle: 601
Archive-Message-Number: 7536
Date: Thu, 12 May 1994 14:00:50 +1000
From: pihlab@cbr.hhcs.gov.au
Subject: RE: some ideas


                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M

                                      Date:  Sent on: 1994-May-12 01:59pm
                                      From:  Bruce Pihlamae
                                             PIHLAMAE BRUCE
                                      Dept:  Information Services
                                      Tel No:(06) 289-7056

TO:  Remote Addressee                     ( _traveller@engrg.uwo.ca )


Subject: RE: some ideas


>Bundle: 600
>From: David Hoey <dhoey@it.ntu.edu.au>
>Subject: Some Adventure Ideas
>
>The following are some brief adventure ideas, the first two I used while
>playing Classic Traveller.  The last one struck me last night after dropping
>someone of at the airport.
>
>Idea 1:
>The Imperial Police Agent:  This came from an idea involving extradiction
>of criminals from countries and even states within countries.  Basically
>if a criminal commits a crime on planet A and then flees to planet B, who
>brings the criminal to have justice on planet A.  The Imperial Police 
>Agent was different from bounty hunters in that they were given a ship
>for there use and have powers of arrest on all planets.  If they required
>extra help on the arrest they could enlist the aid of the Imperial Navy.

Excellent idea.  Some variations would be to introduce the "Circuit Judge"
like "Judge Roy Bean" (sp?) or even Judge Dread (without the weapons).

I've always wondered how they would take a case to a higher "off-world" court.

You also could have an inter-system bodyguard operation for important
personages like: the visiting diplomat, professor, surgeon, or scientist.
 

>Idea 3:
>The Customs Barrier:  After going through security at the airport here
>I noticed two things:  it is very light, and in all the traveller games
>I have played I have never had to go through security or customs at a
>starport.  For this adventure the PC's have just landed on a high law
>level world and are trying to get through customs.  Unknown to the PC's
>(unless they ask) the government has decided to outlaw a large range of
>items.  Items outlaw should included an item on of the PC's is carrying
>i.e. the wearing of black items of clothing is now outlawed.

How about introducing the players to some important personage and have
one of them call hime "recalcitrant" and have the locals misinterpret it
as "thick head".  Don't laugh, our Prime Minister did it to the Indonesian
Leader.  Substitute whatever words you like but make it a grave insult
and have them carted off for flogging or something equally violent.

>I hope these ideas are of some help

They were, hope mine are too.

    
    Bruce...        pihlab@cbr.hhcs.gov.au
    
    "The more complex the argument gets, the easier it is to refute."
    "Killing is wrong!"  -- Trent 'The Uncatchable' Castanaveras
    
    *******************************************************************
    * Bruce Pihlamae  --  Database Administration                     *
    * Commonwealth Department of Human Services and Health            *
    * Canberra, ACT, Australia                        (W) 06-289-7056 *
    *=================================================================*
    * These are my own thoughts and opinions, few that I have.        *
    *******************************************************************
    
    


------------------------------

Bundle: 601
Archive-Message-Number: 7537
Date: 12 May 1994 01:25:03 -0700
From: PPUGLIESE@pimacc.pima.edu
Subject: Sword Worlds History vs US History

From what I can see the discussion between Dave & Hans over the Sword
Worlds has evolved into a discussion over real-life historical inter-
pretation. Since I happen to believe that Dave's interpretation of
the USA's historical relations with Latin America are grossly inacur-
rate <no offence, Dave> I also disagree with his analysis of Sword
World dynamics. I feel that Hans model is alot closer to the way things
would be. I think this points up something common to Traveller &, inci-
dentally, also displayed in different views as to whether Zhodani soci-
ety is Good(tm) or Bad(tm), that is that, eventually one's personal ide-
ology, for lack of a better term, will eventually wind up being the de-
termining factor. One of the major strengths of Traveller, less so now
that TNE is upon us, has always been that *anyone* can always find *some-
place* that will suit them perfectly. I personally feel, considering the 
preceding text, that attempting to minutely dissect the evolution of the 
Sworld Worlds will inevitably be a sterile exercise. Just my opinion of
course so don't feel that I'm trying to suppress anything but I just
thought that I should raise the point that basing an argument upon fun-
damentals that others don't accept will usually result in a conclusion
that those others won't accept either. 

Phil
Pugliese

ppugliese@pimacc.pima.edu
 

------------------------------

Bundle: 601
Archive-Message-Number: 7538
Date: Thu, 12 May 1994 10:56:34 +0100 (BST)
From: Stewart Eyres <spe@jb.man.ac.uk>
Subject: L'oeul d'Dieu 3010 B-98A510-B N Ni, Wa, Gg

Aramis Subsector					Spinward Marches

World ID:	L'oeul d'Dieu 3010 B-98A510-B N Ni, Wa, Gg
Distances:	Main World to Jump Point = 1.432 million km
		Main World to Gas Giant  = 270 million km
		Jump Point to Gas Giant  = 3.614 million km
Physical:	Diameter= 14,944 km, Atmosphere= 1.90 atm,  Dense, 
		breathable, Gravity= 1.03 g, Hydrographics= 99% water
Demographic:	Starport= Bee, Population= 520 thousand
		Government= Corporation; Sharurshid, Law Level= Zero
Trade:		Classifications= Non-industrial, Water World
		Base Cargo Cost= Cr 452 per klitre
		Raw= --
		Agricultural= Meat, Grain, Fibre
		Processed= --
		Manufactured= Electronics
Comments:	This water world is under the aegis of Sharurshid, the 
		megacorporation specialising in rare trade goods.  
Sharurshid obtains a variety of exotic seafoods and other products form 
this world.  There has been much pressure to have the world opened up for 
settlement, but Sharurshid, fearing damage to the local ecosystem, has 
resisted.  However, the corporation does supplement the income from the 
world by exporting various basic food stuffs, harvested in a sustainable 
manner.
 
Although surface port facilities exist, most traffic is directed to the 
orbital facility, in order to reduce the potential for damage to the local 
ecology.  The naval base here, INS {\em Shaanan}, is charged specifically with 
supporting and directing patrols of the Xboat route through the Aramis Trace.  
The other bases along the route support patrols into the rest of the subsector.

Subsector D							Deneb Domain

_____________________________________________________________________________
"Traveller Done Wrong 
	- Let's get the Fiction back into Science Fiction Roleplaying"

Stewart								N.R.A.L.
								Jodrell Bank
								Macclesfield
spe@jb.man.ac.uk						Cheshire
								SK11 9DL
____________________________________________________________________________


------------------------------

Bundle: 601
Archive-Message-Number: 7539
Date: Thu, 12 May 94 12:03:21 CDT
From: Peter H. Brenton <pete@biochem.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Shiela-X, NPC extrodinaire

Shiela-X was a player character with an excellent (although somewhat
nutso) player.  She was converted to an NPC when my original campaign
"blew itself to smithereens" in 1989.  I liked the character so much
she started showing up in other player's adventures.

Shiela-X  

Str	9
Dex	B
End	7
Int	8
Edu	A (4) see below
S.S.	3
Psi (none to speak of)

Skills;  Pilot-5, Computer-3,Sensor Ops-3, Streetwise-2, Pistol-2, SMG-2, 
Shotgun-1, Gunnery(Missile turret)-1, Tactics-1, Navigation (old traveller)-2
Electronics-3, Engineerong-3

Shiela's father was a knife, her mother a test tube.  Yes, Shiela-X is an 
AP, or Artificial Person (hence the low S.S.).  Her DNA was combined from
several different persons.  Her purpose as designed was to be a deep space
scout for the Scout Service.

Shiela-X is a tall distinctive-looking, woman.  Her figure is thin, but the
way she dresses reveals her sex without question.  She works out
semi-constantly (high End., Str), and often wears tight spandex outfits
(one of her favorites is transparent) especially in battle, which she lives for.
She is also often seen in leather hip-length boots.

She is almost never seen without her Cigar, a huge Freudian thing which she 
chews on especially when angry or nervous.  She lights it after sex, battle, or
to annoy people.

Her hair she wears extremely short, and bleached pale white.  Her manner is
gruff and judgemental.  Her favorite choice of action is the "smash and grab"
even when such a course is foolhardy.

Shiela was "made" in the Spinward Marches, she is unsure where.  But when her
'control programming' failed and she went rogue she was at Mora/Mora.  She
killed several guards in her escape, some of them had already surrendered to
her.  The Imperial authorities have a warrant ("Armed and Dangerous") out
for her arrest or retrieval of her body (reward of 100,00 Cr).

If she likes you she may show you where they tatooed her serial number.  Chances
are you'll see it eventually since she likes to shock people with what she
wears.

Favorite Weapon; 

(casual) a big auto pistol (.44 automag, typically)
(in Battle) a flechette loaded 11mm pump shotgun

Favorite Dance;

The Tango (one of the few times the cigar comes out)

Favorite Food;

Combat Rations (bred into her for scout work)

Remember, just about everything about Shiela-X, her anti-social behavior,
her tastes, her auto-eroticism (she's very sexually self-centered) is due to
her designers desire to create a tool for deep space exploration.  She was 
intended to be put alone of a type S for months or years at a time and sent out
into the unexplored vastness.  It was found that regular humans required 
companionship too badly, and computers/robots did not have the required
independence of thought to survive or make the missilns successful.

Her training as a pilot began at a very early age (to the detriment of other
subjects like History, Literature, etc) along with training in electronics,
computers, navigation, engineering, a smattering of weapons skills and tactics
intending to give her survival skills for almost any situation.

Her education therefore is excellent in areas like metallurgy, botany, biology
(not sufficient for skill levels, just a good general knowledge), but terrible
for history, literature, philosophy, or psychology.  Judgements should be made 
regarding which level is used for a given roll.

Shiela escaped her keepers at the age of 16, and after stealing a small ship
made it appear as if she crashed it (actually making a controlled crash from
secondary controls in the engine room) which destroyed the entire front section
of the craft.  This was in the Mertractor system on a planet with a large 
underground society.  She disappeared into this realm for awhile (learning her 
streetwise skills here), making friends and contacts.

The Imps eventually figured out she was still alive (she blew up an arboretum)
and began pursuing her in earnest.  Note that in my campign world there is a
serious aversion to cloning or creating persons artificially.

At the time of our adventures She was about 32 years old.  She paired up with 
the rebellious (and Psionic) Son of the Duchess of Mertractor, Quentin Xavier
Bim III, but he is another story.


Personal note;

Typically my players and I would play Traveller (the original) in a classroom
where we went to college (Clark University, Worcester MA).  We never knew which
 of several classrooms would be available, so we would write on the blackboards
in the lobby of the building, "Shiela-X where are you?" in big letters, and 
the room number in small ones at the bottom.

Years later, people were still seeing "Shiela-X where are you" on those black-
boards on occasion.  The game long since ended.

------------------------------

Bundle: 601
Archive-Message-Number: 7540
From: mgood@MIT.EDU
Date: Thu, 12 May 94 11:56:45 -0400
Subject: Deep Space Jumps


djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson) says:

>I've always considered that jump calculations use gravity wells as
>`targets'.

I think that instead it's calculations based on charted positions,
etc.  While your idea is interesting, how do you locate the
targets?  Also, this seems to be against the 100 diameter idea: you
want to be far away from gravity wells, not close to them.  

I think that you target your ship towards a coordinate in space,
not towards a gravity well...

If I were a player in your campaign, I would want to know how my ship
is targeting gravity wells parsecs away: that would indicate alot of 
interesting possiblities ;-)

Matt

------------------------------

Bundle: 601
Archive-Message-Number: 7541
Subject: NPC exchange...
Date: Thu, 12 May 94 9:45:09 CDT
From: goldman@orac.cray.com (Goldman of Chaos -- postmaster CRI-US)
Reply-To: goldman@orac.cray.com

Cool idea.  I'll have to pick some of the more interesting NPCs out
and send them off.  I even had pictures of some of them.  I'll have to
hit up the scanner.

Matt

- -- 
Matthew Goldman  E-mail: goldman@orac.cray.com Work: (612) 683-3061

My day today? Nothing major, just Xenon base gone, Scorpio gone, 
Tarrant dead, Tarrant alive and then I found out Blake sold us out.

------------------------------

Bundle: 601
Archive-Message-Number: 7542
Date: Thu, 12 May 1994 09:41:46 -0500
From: bonnevil@mermaid.micro.umn.edu (Steven M Bonneville)
Subject: Sword Worlds


David Johnson writes:

>(But don't the shipbuilding rules state that any world can build ships for
>its own navy regardless of starport class?)

Erm.  The old, old _High Guard_ rules said that was an option for planetary
navies.  I guess to allow tech-8 E-starport worlds to have rockets (and
hence explain Earth.)  It probably isn't exactly true now.  There's an
interesting discussion of shipbuilding in the RC in _Path Of Tears_ about
B-port worlds building starships with drives imported from A-port worlds.
The "One Small Step" articles in _Challenge_ also allowed some minor
shipbuilding on low port worlds, but I forget the details.  (Of course,
in old _High Guard_, you couldn't build tech-8 ships....)

I'm not sure about the current TNE ruling.

  Steve Bonneville
  <bonnevil@mermaid.micro.umn.edu>

------------------------------

Bundle: 601
Archive-Message-Number: 7543
Date: Thu, 12 May 1994 15:50:25 +0100
From: A.S.Lilly@bnr.co.uk (Andy Lilly)
Subject: Green Virus

Just a quick thought, don't think anyone's mentioned this before...

If you don't like the TNE computer virus, why not just replace it with a 
'green' virus, i.e. one that kills off plants or living creatures. Give it a 
long enough incubation period and assume it can be carried as spores or 
bacteria or something in starship air or on crew boots or in crew people, 
etc. and make it attack livestock or food crops (or even people) and you 
have quite enough reason for complete collapse of planets plus paranoia 
about infection from outside (i.e. the Regency 'blockade'; or is it the 
Coalition - I don't have TNE).

It might be more believable that after a few years someone would come up 
with a means of neutralising this (innoculation?) than the strange lengths 
required to fight a computer virus. It also explains the spread of the virus 
more easily and doesn't require suspension of belief with regard to the 
(computer) virus' infection methods.

Anyone working in germ warfare care to elaborate? :)

I'm sure someone must have thought this one up before?

Andy
Commander Lilly, PITS (Political Intelligence Team, Scout)
Nothing I say or do in any way reflects the views of my very kind and
generous employers.


------------------------------

Bundle: 601
Archive-Message-Number: 7544
Date: Thu, 12 May 1994 09:59:53 -0500
From: bonnevil@mermaid.micro.umn.edu (Steven M Bonneville)
Subject: RQS

PBJuzyk writes:

[estimated quarantine blockade]

>    Deneb:          B - G - K - O
>    Reft:                   C - B - F - E - I
>    Trojan Reach:   L - P - O
>    Riftspan Reaches:       C - G - F - E

Remember, too, that RQS patrols *all* borders, even the Zhodani and
spinward ones.  Not as heavily, but it's a safety measure in case
someone screws up their part of the border.  Also don't forget that
the Zhodani/Vargr are patrolling an area to coreward that may not
be clearly marked on the current map.  (People who have _Survival
Margin_ and TNE know about the variability of maps, i.e. the Black
"Sphere".)  The Aslan are a first line of defense for the jump-5
Riftspan route to the old Hierate, as seen from the Regency.

Roger Sanger writes:

>With most of its assets transferred over to the quarantine
>effort, what is the role of the Scout Service in the Regency in
>the New Era?

Judging by the text, sadly minimal.  The Exploration Office is
apparently shut down.  Contact & Liaison and Survey are apparently
restricted to operations inside the Regency...updating old 
cartography and maintaining internal mutual understanding among
the various sophont species of the area.  I miss the IISS.

I suppose that it is possible the RISS is quietly trying to maintain
the old IISS Group offices out in Theta Borealis and Sigma Zephyrus,
though.  The old sector staff was pretty committed, and they may yet
have *some* small discretionary funds.  It'd be a shoestring operation,
though.  There might also be some long-range Imperial base ships like
the Solomani ones that have not yet returned from multi-decade missions
to spinward, or even gone back out -- they have to be fairly self-
sufficient.

  Steve Bonneville
  <bonnevil@mermaid.micro.umn.edu>


------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Sun, 15 May 94 22:00:03 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #602: Msgs 7545-7556 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Sun May 15 22:00:03 EDT 1994
Reply-To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Errors-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 May 94 22:00:03 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #602: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 602  7545 12-May-1994 rancke@diku.dk   Sword World politics << David Johnson:
 602  7546 12-May-1994 James T Perkins  Pre-TNE Traveller Mailing List Planned 
 602  7547 12-May-1994 Mike Basinger    Subject Headings << I think instead of 
 602  7548 12-May-1994 gsw@aloft.att.c  Re: Deep Space Jumps << John Bucsek wri
 602  7549 12-May-1994 "Tariq M. Rashi  Re:NPC Swap (fwd) << ---------- Forward
 602  7550 12-May-1994 David Johnson    Shall Not Perish 14 -  Regency sourcebo
 602  7551 12-May-1994 J Roberson       Too Good to pass up << > Judiasiam   ==
 602  7552 13-May-1994 Roger Sanger     Aliens in the Regency... <<  
 602  7553 13-May-1994 Roger Sanger     Stranded in the Regency... <<  
 602  7554 13-May-1994 CHiggin@aol.com  Deep Space Stations << > From: bonnevil
 602  7555 13-May-1994 Steven M Bonnev  Re: Green Virus << Andy Lilly writes:
 602  7556 13-May-1994 13-May-1994 133  Interested in Sky Galleons of Mars Camp

------------------------------

Bundle: 602
Archive-Message-Number: 7545
From: rancke@diku.dk
Subject: Sword World politics
Date: Thu, 12 May 1994 13:03:29 +0100 (METDST)

David Johnson:
>>From Tuesday night, Hans Rancke <rancke@diku.dk> writes:
> 
>> Dominate how? And how quick is quickly?
> 
>Well, something like what all this *Smash and Grab* stuff is supposed to
>be about for those Sword World wannabees in the Reformation Coalition.
>I, King David I of Sacnoth, send my TL 12 fleet down to Gram, 

Encountering their TL 12 fleet en route. Now what? (Or _not_ encountering 
it, which would be a lot more worrying ;-).

>shoot up
>the capital, drop a few `planetbusters', execute the King of Gram and
>his family, set up some disguntled duke as king, and send emmissaries 
>to the other Sword Worlds expressing my sincerest hopes that I won't
>need to visit their world next.

And the next thing you know Sacnoth is being visited by the combined fleets
of the rest of the Sword Worlds who are anxious to ensure that you won't
visit their world next.

>The Confederation is really little more than a mutual-defense pact set up
>to protect the Sword Worlds from Imperial incursions and to permit joint
>`defensive' operations against the Darrians.  Think more of NATO
>than the European Union.

Yes, that was my own impression. Though perhaps it is a little more. The
original Sword Worlders were refugees from a lost war. Perhaps this gave
them an Us-and-Them mentality that prevails to this day. You can fight
between yourselves, but only if you don't cripple the other guy so much
he can't help against 'Them'.

>>Ah, but thats the whole point. You don't have the factories because you can
>>buy your TL 12 stuff cheaper from Sacnoth than you can build them yourself.
> 
>Sure, I do this if I value cheaper products over dependence upon Sacnoth
>(or whatever world currently is on an `up' cycle).  If I'm as smart as the
>Japanese I don't get caught in this trap.

Which may be why Sachnoth is due for their own downturn on the cycle in the
not too distant future.

>>And you don't build that ship yourself becuase it's cheaper to buy it from
>>Sacnoth, too. This also impose a natural restriction on Sacnoth's ability to 
>>dominate the Confederation: If they become too expensive the other worlds 
>>_will_ build TL 12 factories  -  which will propably trigger a recession on 
>>Sacnoth and close down a lot of industry  -  quite possibly enough to drop 
>>Sacnoth a TL in the process. That's what I mean by economic cycles.
> 
>There are other ways for Sacnoth to preserve its dominance.  The technology
>of the US is largely available to Latin American nations.  Unfortunately,
>many of these nations lack the stability, primarily political, required to
>support a similar level of economic and technological achievement.  Fostering
>this instability has been standard American policy for nearly a century.

Think about this for a moment. Sacnoth is not the US in that analogy, they 
are another one of the Latin nations.

>One of the reasons Central Americans who can't own American cars don't build
>their own factories is that the US military drops in every once and a 
>while to topple the local government.  When we're not doing that we're
>supplying arms to some `disgruntled duke' who keeps the fires of instability
>burning.  We are able to do this because we have the will and a significant
>technological advantage.  

Ah! There's another point. _Significant_ is a significant word here (;-).
How significant is an advantage of 12 over 11 and 10? The only figures I
have are some from Steve Higginbotham that are based on his extensive
experience with Trillion Credit Squadron campaigns. So they apply to
Classic Traveller. Quite possibly (almost certainly) things are different 
under Megatraveller and New Era rules, but how different and in what 
direction is difficult to say, so I will stick to Steve's until someone
comes up with better ones. According to him, and assuming competent ship
designs, a TL 12 fleet is twice as efficient, ton for ton, as a TL 11 and
six times as efficient as TL 10. Not an impossible imbalance to overcome
when you're 20 to one (I don't have the Sword World population figures
here. What is the population of Sacnoth compared to the rest of the
Confederation? It's no use being twice as good as the other fellow if 
there's 10 of him.)   -  even if the other worlds don't buy TL 12 ships
elsewhere.

>>On the contrary, there is a lot of intergration. That's why their economies
>>can affect each other that way. What they don't have is much economic 
>>_control_. Each world will do what seems best for itself.
> 
>If the King of Gram is equipping his navy with TL 12 equipment built on
>Sacnoth then he's *not* doing what's best for Gram and his fief-holders
>*ought* to depose him.

Depends on what he buys. Some things (like computers) would be risky, other
things could be checked against sabotage. But perhaps he buys them from the
Imperium instead. After all, they are propably playing the US to the Sword
Worlds' Latin America.

>Clearly,
>the Sword Worlds are able to coordinate their efforts well enough to fend
>off not only Imperial military efforts to neutralized them but political
>and economic efforts as well.  

I don't see how that follows at all. The only times the Sword Worlds
invade the Imperium is with promise of Zhodani help. You can't make
many assumptions based on how people behave when they think they have
a powerful ally.

>The Imperium has not been doing to the Sword
>Worlds what I've described for the US in Latin America and suggested for
>Sacnoth within the Confederation.  

Based on the constant instability of the Sword Worlds it seems to me that
that may be precisely what the Imperium has been doing.

If they've tried, it hasn't worked or
>the Sword Worlds wouldn't keep joining the Outworld Coalitions. 

On the contrary, if the Imperium has been doing that it explains why the
Sword Worlds are PO'd enough to keep on joining an alliance that has struck 
out again and again. 

>The Zhodani may be a factor

I've no doubt they are a major factor.

> ...But then again, if relations among the Sword Worlds
>are friendly then they ought to see some advantage in several high-tech
>worlds with class A starports.  Maybe there is some sort of negotiated
>`balance of power': Sacnoth gets the high tech and Gram gets the shipyard?

And maybe the Imperium sees that advantage too and meddles to prevent it?

>>>Well, if this was the case, why wasn't Sacnoth the capital at that point?
>> 
>>Because it was only one of 20+ worlds and the rest wanted it differently?
> 
>Maybe, but again, if I'm the King of Sacnoth my TL advantage permits me
>to pretty much `smash and grab' at will.

As mentioned above I disagree. I'm also not at all sure that he would want
to. He may have the statesman mentality rather than the wargamer mentality.

>>>Leadership clearly fluctuates among the Sword Worlds so ought not these
>>>fluctuations be tied to any fluctuations in technology?  
>> 
>>Why should it? It is tied to political power. One source of political power
>>is technology, but it's not the only one.
> 
>Now you see that in a feudal technocracy, technological power *is* political
>power.

As I've replied, technological power _enhances_ other kinds of power. A 2/1
advantage is nice, but only decisive if everything else is balanced.

>>Besides, the leadership dosen't
>>fluctuate all that much. The Sword Worlds had been led by Gram for centuries 
>>in 1120.
> 
>A good point.  I can't explain it.  As I understand it I don't see how any
>world but the technological leader can be the dominant world.

Well, I still believe that your understanding is mistaken. A population 1 
million world with TL 12 is weaker than a population 10 million world with 
TL 11. Or 10 population 1 million worlds with TL 11. Not to mention the
central point in my theory of Sword World economic-technological cycles:
The TL 11 worlds had TL 12 themselves not so long ago and still retain
TL 12 ships.

>Hope my explanation of a feudal technocracy helped.  I don't see any specific
>reason why it should apply to inter-world relations except that since many
>Sword Worlds are feudal technocracies I would expect them to take a similar
>approach to inter-world affairs.  I just don't see a bunch of economic barons
>voting and negotiating joint communiques.

Well, maybe you should try. It might help ;-). No, waitaminute. It's not
economic barons, it's economic kings. There's a differenceC

>>Oh, dear! You really have a gamer's mentality, don't you? (And, yes, here I
>>am being snide ;-)
> 
>Yes, I admit it.  I want the Sword Worlds to be as fractious and quarrelsome
>as they were in Piper's *Space Viking*.  You see, since `my' Sword Worlds
>have always been that way I *really* have no use for the rehashed Space
>Viking-wannabees of the Reformation Coalition.

I really think you should try to make up an explanation that fits the known
facts rather than to make up an explanation and change the facts to fit them.
(But I know just how you feel. I have the same attitude to the conduct of
the Aslan and Vargr in the Rebellion. The only way they could have the
succes they are described as having is if the whole Deneb Domain is run
by imbeciles or traitors. There's no way they could be the threat thay are
portrayed as unless their military opponents are hopeless incompetents. So
perhaps my disagreement with you is just that I _can_ see a way for the
Sword Worlds to work the way they are described while you can't.) 

>>The Sword Worlds have had their civil wars, true, but
>>they don't have them twice a decade. I think they've had four or five in
>>15 centuries.
> 
>Another good point but only because I don't think the Sword Worlds have
>been portrayed sensibly since the beginning.

There's no answer to this argument (I know, I've used it myself ;-). All
I can say is: Try sitting down one day and start all over by listing known 
facts about the Sword Worlds, discarding all your own interpretations for 
a while, and then try to make sense of them  -  just as an interlectual
excercise. Perhaps you'll come up with something useful.

>>Maybe the Sacnoth 
>>leaders think a destructive stalemate would destroy too much. And, as
>>I've mentioned above, if Sacnoth dosen't sell those ships then the other
>>worlds _will_ build the factories to make the parts and build their own. If 
>>that's the way it works, then the only reason why the other worlds are not 
>>TL 12 is precisely that Sacnoth IS selling them ships and spare parts.
> 
>Maybe, but keep in mind the US policy in Latin America.  Sacnoth doesn't
>*need* to dominate militarily in order to dominate.  Especially if the
>economies are as integrated as you've described then the feudal technocracy
>extends *across* the subsector and there ought to arise someone at the
>top and that someone ought to be the highest tech world.

Think about the kingdoms of medieval Europe. There were some mixing of
feudal duties between kings (especially between England and France). But
eventually the individual countries prevailed over the feudal structure.
There's no reason why a king should welcome a feudal pattern just because
their own power is based on it. And, in fact, we KNOW they don't. If they
did the Sword Worlds would be an empire instead of a confederation.


      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "A  subsector  official  pompously states that the
        subsector  armed  forces  have  four Kinunir class
        ships in service,  each with enough troop strength
        to put down any military operations that threathen
        the peace of the Imperium."

                        ---Adventure 1, The Kinunir

------------------------------

Bundle: 602
Archive-Message-Number: 7546
Subject: Pre-TNE Traveller Mailing List Planned
Reply-To: jamesp@sp-eug.com (James T Perkins)
Date: Thu, 12 May 94 10:10:04 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@sp-eug.com>


I am announcing my plans to create a second Traveller Mailing List.

TNE, for good or ill, has caused a deep division in Traveller gamers. A
large number of very productive TMLers have dropped off the list as the
TNE material (most specifically, the TNE setting) have made TML no
longer interesting to them.

These people feel they no longer have a forum where they can discuss
Traveller topics of interest to them. We've lost a lot of creative and
interesting people. This represents a loss of valuable talent to the
game and a loss to the TML community.

This is a behavior similar to when people unsubscribe from a newsgroup
when the "signal-to-noise ratio" grows too small. When this happens,
often an enterprising individual suggests that the newsgroup be enhanced
by division into different topical areas.

So, I am announcing my intention (again, for good or ill) to create a
topical sublist disjoint from (but related to) TML. This list will exist
to discuss the Imperium in the Classic and Rebellion period. It will
focus on the black book and MegaTraveller environment. It will not be a
totally TNE-free zone. Depending on initial response, application of TNE
rules to the Classic and Rebellion settings may be tolerated.

I have not yet decided on a name for this sublist. Nor am I taking
subscriptions for it at this time. The TML, however, will be the first
to know when the mechanisms are ready.

Please spread the word. Let disaffected former TML subscribers know that
this is in the works.

James Perkins

------------------------------

Bundle: 602
Archive-Message-Number: 7547
From: Mike Basinger <dbasinge@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Subject Headings
Date: Thu, 12 May 1994 15:20:11 -0500 (EST)

I think instead of dividing the mail listing, the TML should adapt a
subject heading format, similar to the ones used on rec.games.frp.misc.

For example:

CT: for Classic Traveller msgs
MT: for MegaTraveller msgs
TNE: for New Era based mags
Any: for any sort of Traveller format

A person mailing the TML should make there subject of the mail message

CT: 3I rules

or 

TNE: Laser Damage???

comments???
mike

- -- 
D. Michael Basinger: 	Not speaking for Indiana University
			dbasinge@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu
			dbasinge@nations.ucs.indiana.edu (NeXT Mail)

------------------------------

Bundle: 602
Archive-Message-Number: 7548
From: gsw@aloft.att.com
Date: Thu, 12 May 94 13:22:22 EDT
Subject: Re: Deep Space Jumps

John Bucsek writes:

> The major problem as I see it is the loss of cargo space where you
> have to carry the extra fuel.

Perhaps it is no longer true, but it used to be that you GAINED
cargo space by doing a number of smaller jumps (the fuel usage
can be recalculated based on a smaller ship's mass--if you base
fuel usage solely on hull size, use inflatable or drop tanks).
In addition, you saved space by using a smaller jump drive.

> I disagree that it creates a big problem with the Virus and the
> Regency blockade.  The Virus doesn't have the refueling capability
> to move a large fleet by the way of a deep space stop, [ ... ]

Without TNE, I am at a disadvantage.  It occurs to me that a
large fleet action would not be necessary, though.  Why not
penetrate to the center of the Regency where they are not so
vigilant and "infect" them from the inside out?

> It makes even less sense for merchantmen to use smaller J-drives
> as this increases the travel time and decreases the profit.

This is a reasonable argument, although I believe that most
merchants will not have large jump drives.  They are far too
expensive, and less of your ship is dedicated to cargo.  They
will likely restrict their trade to nearer stars, except in
special cases, which would justify either the extra expense
or the extra time.

Again, things may have changed, but it used to be that a
large jump drive (and equipment to support it) overwhelmed
the cost of a ship, to the point where it was generally not
profitable to use one in a trader.

> CT and MT ships however would need to carry extra fuel.  I agree
> that a deep space stopover is allowable, however it should be a
> MAJOR problem to do so.  [ ... ]

> One last point, In Arrival Vengence the ship rendevous with a deep
> space comet for refueling on the way back to the regency.  [ ... ]

and David Johnson writes:

> I've always considered that jump calculations use gravity wells as
> `targets'. [ ... ]

I think we are all in agreement.  The background states that jumps
to deep space are possible, but indirectly implies that they must
not be easy.  We already know gravity affects jumps, why not use it
as a 'target' as David Johnson suggests (perhaps even a mandatory
one)?  This is consistent with the Arrival Vengeance using a comet
(it has it's own gravity well, even though it is small).  Perhaps
sufficiently dense "dark matter" could even be used, but precisely
locating it might be difficult.

,-----------------.
|Gerald S Williams|
|gsw@aloft.att.com|
`-----------------'

      _  |     ____/    _  |
     /   /    /        /   /
    /   /  ____ |     ____/
   /   /        /    /
______/  ______/  __/

AT&T DSP tools development


------------------------------

Bundle: 602
Archive-Message-Number: 7549
Date: Thu, 12 May 1994 17:49:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Tariq M. Rashid" <spstmr@gsusgi2.gsu.edu>
Subject: Re:NPC Swap (fwd)



- ---------- Forwarded message ----------
Rodger..is this your address, I had this returned when I tried it.

To: rodger@cyberspace.main

Rodge, great idea on the NPC swap, Ive got about a dozen that are pretty 
well developed that Ill put in in a couple days.  Question..Where did you 
post yours/ Should we just post to the TML?

Tariq




------------------------------

Bundle: 602
Archive-Message-Number: 7550
Date: Thu, 12 May 94 17:16:03 CDT
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Shall Not Perish 14 -  Regency sourcebook

Gentlesophonts:

Thanks to the efforts of PBJuzyk, Steve Bonneville and others we've made
some great additions to the TML Regency Sourcebook.  Here's the latest
draft.  There are still many areas in need of development so please jump
in wherever your interest is piqued.

*SHALL NOT PERISH* - A TML Regency Sourcebook

(Reference TML Msg 586/7338 22-Apr-1994)

REGENCY TIMELINE

Anyone care to add a general history borken out by decades from the Rebellion
to TNE?

1121-1130
  312-1130 Quarantine established
1131-1140
1141-1150
1151-1160
1161-1170
1171-1180
1181-1190
1191-1200

Significant dates are still needed for the following:
 Declaration of the Regency
 The `Rape of Trin' (Gram?)
 Death of Norris(?)
 Openings to the Zhodani(?)
 Others?

THE QUARANTINE LINE

>From PBJuzyk <psualum@aol.com>:

When Norris established the Quarantine (312-1130) the Patrol was
combined with part of the Regency Interstellar Scout Service
(Exploration and External Mapping branches) to form the Regency
Quarantine Service (RQS).  Communications (xboat & courier service) and
Internal Mapping functions remained unchanged (within the borders of the
Regency).  The RQS soon became a separate service.

The Quarantine border was extended to more defensible positions and is
several parsecs deep to prevent high jump performance ships from leaping
over the blockade.  By 1201 this border ran through the following
subsectors:

	Deneb: 		B - G - K - O
	Reft:			C - B - F - E - I
	Trojan Reach:	L - P - O
	Riftspan Reaches:	C - G - F - E

The Scout/Courier ships now available to the RQS were modified to create
Quarantine Cutters quickly followed by the addition of 70-ton Inspection
Launches.  The RQS still wasn't able to maintain a virus-proof seal
along the entire border which resulted in the creation of the RQS
Auxiliary comprised of private citizens assisting the patrol of the
border.  Later 150-ton Quarantine Cutters (stretched versions of the
Scout) entered into use by the RQS.

SUBSECTOR MAPS AND UWP DATA

I would suggest a typical subsector on each of the Regency frontiers: the
Zhodani frontier (Jewell), the Vargr frontier (Regina, Aramis, or Pretoria),
the Virus frontier (Lamas, Dunmag or Usani) and the Aslan *ihatei* frontier
(Tobia, Gazulin, Pax Rulin or Glisten).  The capital subsector, Mora, would
be representative of the Regency 'core'.  Maybe a subsector in the Deneb Wilds?

Let's follow the *Path of Tears* format with Imperial Era (IE) and Post-
Imperial Era (PIE) UWP stats.

MAJOR WORLDS OF THE REGENCY

Major worlds ought to be Mora/Mora, Deneb/Usani, Gazulin/Gazulin,
Regina/Regina, Rhylanor/Rhylanor, Glisten/Glisten, Lintl/Vestus,
Pretoria/Pretoria, Magash/Sabine, Vincennes/Vincennes and Lunion/Lunion.

Any other candidates?

REGENCY GOVERNMENT

Using the *World Builders' Handbook* model, executive authority is obviously
held by a `ruler' - the Regent.  What about legislative authority?  Under
the Imperium this was also held by the `ruler' - the Emperor.  The suggestions
of greater `democracy' in the Regency might be apparent here.  In a mulit-
body legislature (Moot?) the aristocracy would certainly still have a voice
so let's call the upper house the `Chamber of Nobles'.  A second body might
be the `Chamber of Delegates' that is composed of representatives from
individual worlds (probably with representation weighted by population - one
doubts Pop 1 worlds will have the same say as Pop A worlds, especially since
the Chamber of Nobles will already reflect this bias).  Might there be a
third (or fourth?) house?  Generally, legislative authority in the Regency
would be classed as `several councils' in *WBH* terms.

While primary authority will be executive (the Regent), secondary judicial
authority might also exist to complement the secondary legislative authority.
Again, under the Imperial system judicial authority was held by the single
ruler and `delegated' down through the aristocracy.  My sense is that the
Regents will still maintain judicial authority similar to the Imperial model.

Therefore, in *WBH* lingo the Regency has a primary executive/judicial ruler
with several secondary legislative councils.

*POT* apparently has a table of all RC worlds, their populations, political
bloc and number of representatives.  Anyone care to post a list of Regency
worlds with populations (maybe Roger's hypertext can help here?) and we can
work on representatives from there?

REGENCY POLITICS

The Nobility:

Archduke of Deneb and Regent: Norris? Seldrian? Avery?
Duchess of Mora: Elane Shankarr Muudashir at Mora
 -Leader of the Aristocratic bloc, possibly
Duke/Duchess of Deneb: Aleksandr Lagaashinga or his heir at Deneb
 -Leader of the Imperialist bloc?
Duke/Duchess of Gazulin: Sharik Arcadia or her heir at Gazulin
 -The most prrominent new Democrat?
Duke/Duchess of Regina: Seldrian Aledon or her heir at Regina
Duke/Duchess of Glisten: at Glisten
Duke/Duchess of Rhylanor: at Rhylanor
 -Possibly a leader of the Santanocheevists?
Duke/Duchess of Vestus: at Lintl
Duke/Duchess of Pretoria: at Pretoria
Duke/Duchess of Sabine: at Magash
Duke/Duchess of Vincennes: at Vincennes?
 -Where does Count Audine Garhik, Marquis Vincennes (Norris's nephew)
  fit in here?  If Count Audine is Marquis of Vincennes but not Duke
  then where is the Duke's seat?  Why isn't it Vincennes if the subsector
  capital is there?
Duke/Duchess of Lunion: at Lunion
Duke/Duchess of Trin's Veil: no longer at Trin!
 -Possibly a leader of the Isolationist bloc
Duke/Duchess of Vilis: at Frenzie
 -Prominent in the Santanocheevist bloc?
Duke/Duchess of Lanth: at Lanth
Duke/Duchess of Lamas: at Lamas? (Quarantine Line)
 -Prominent in the Expansionist bloc
Duke/Duchess of Inar: at Inar
Duke/Duchess of Dunmag: at Dunmag? (Quarantine Line)
 -Prominent in the Expansionist bloc
Duke/Duchess of Star Lane: at Imone
Duke/Duchess of Usani: at Usani? (Quarantine Line)
 -Prominent in the Expansionist bloc
Duke/Duchess of Geniishir: at Geniishir? (Quarantine Line)
 -Prominent in the Expansionist bloc
Duke/Duchess of Gulf: at Qevar
Duke/Duchess of Zeng: at Zeng

Other dukes/duchesses-in-exile who will be prominent in the House of
Nobles and the Aristocratic and Imperialist blocs:

Duke/Duchess of Antra/Deneb
Duke/Duchess of Million/Deneb
Duke/Duchess of Atsah/Deneb? (overrun by Vargr during the Rebellion)
Duke/Duchess of Tobia/Trojan Reach: heir of Duke Alexander

These political blocs have been suggested:

Isolationists want to maintain the Quarantine.
 -Led by the Duke/Duchess of Trin's Veil?
Expansionists want to move out into the Wilds.
 -Enjoys Instellarms backing.
Democrats seek to expand `democratic' values.
 -Led by the Duke/Duchess of Gazulin?
Aristocrats want to maintain the noble aristocracy.
 -Led by Duchess Elane of Mora
 -Possibly known as Muudashirists?
 -Enjoy much support among the House of Nobles
Tolerants favor a relaxation of psi prejudices.
 -Discretely supported by SuSAG.
Santanocheevists oppose any moves toward accommodation with the Zhodani.
 -Led by the Duke/Duchess of Rhylanor?
 -Enjoys Instellarms backing.
Imperialists still hope to one day resurrect the Old Imperium.
 -Led by the Duke/Duchess of Deneb?
 -Enjoys support from Tukera Lines.
Autnomists favor independence and a complete break from the Imperial past.

Here's an `alliance' template:

     Iso  Exp  Dem  Ari  Tol  San  Imp  Aut
Iso   -    x    ?    ?    ?    o    x    o
Exp   x    -    ?    ?    ?    o    o    o
Dem   ?    ?    -    x    o    ?    x    ?
Ari   ?    ?    x    -    ?    ?    o    ?
Tol   ?    ?    o    ?    -    x    x    ?
San   o    o    ?    ?    x    -    o    ?
Imp   x    o    x    o    x    o    -    x
Aut   o    o    ?    ?    ?    ?    x    -

codes: o = favorable, x = opposed

What is the nature of the Regency government?  Someone mentioned that Avery
from *AV* serves as a cabinet minister(?) to Seldrian (the Regent) which
suggests some sort of ministerial portfolios (cabinet posts for Americans).
What is the nature of the relationship between the Regency Moot and the 
Regent?  Does the Moot have any `real' power?  What about the relationship
between the Chambers of the Moot?  How are members of the Chamber of
Delegates chosen?  Is this decided by each individual world or are there
`common' standards throughout the Regency?  If there is some sort of voting,
who gets to vote?  Everyone?  Adults only?  Literate adults?  Propertied
adults?  How long after I move from Junidy to Strouden can I vote there?

Remember that even a system where *only* the Chamber of Nobles has some sort
of `limited' veto power over the Regent is one that is more `democratic' than
was the Old Imperium.

REGENCY LANGUAGE

Anyone care to offer a few examples of Riftian jargon after 70 years of
divergence from Galanglic?

QUARANTINE SERVICE AND REGENCY PATROL

>From PBJuzyk <psualum@aol.com>:

Regency Quarantine Service

When Norris established the Quarantine (312-1130) the Patrol was
combined with part of the Regency Interstellar Scout Service
(Exploration and External Mapping branches) to form the Regency
Quarantine Service (RQS).  Communications (xboat & courier service) and
Internal Mapping functions remained unchanged (within the borders of the
Regency).  The RQS soon became a separate service.

The Scout/Courier ships now available to the RQS were modified to create
Quarantine Cutters quickly followed by the addition of 70-ton Inspection
Launches.  The RQS still wasn't able to maintain a virus-proof seal
along the entire border which resulted in the creation of the RQS
Auxiliary comprised of private citizens assisting the patrol of the
border.  Later 150-ton Quarantine Cutters (stretched versions of the
Scout) entered into use by the RQS.

The above data on the RQS is pieced together from Survival Margin and
T:TNE manual.  The following is my conjectures on tactics of the RQS as
well as some additional necessary assets.  For each system that contains
gas giant(s) and/or a world with water present the RQS will need to base
assets able to defend those sites and send messages to other systems in
the Zone.  This would include manned bases in position around such
planets and small fighter craft in addition to the ships normally in use
by the RQS.

When a ship arrives at a system within the Zone and is detected by RQS
sensors they will be hailed.  If they respond they will be instructed to
rendezvous with either a Quarantine Cutter or an Inspection Launch
depending on the size of the ship.  If any problems arise when
communication is attempted the RQS will dispatch armed craft (either
Cutters or fighters who tend to shoot first and ask questions later.
Fighters would be designed with high manuever capabilities and would be
based at all refueling sources.

They would not be launched until a suspect ship is fairly close.  This
provides multiple benefits: the fighters have ample fuel, the incoming
ships are low on fuel, the bases are close-by so are able to provide
heavy fire support (Particle Accelerators and Meson Guns).  Another
option would be to replace some or all of the fighters with remotely
piloted vehicles operated from the base.

Finally should incoming hostile forces overcome an RQS base there must
be some means for notifying other nearby systems.  This is accomplished
by maintaining a small unmanned station outside of the 100 diameter zone
which contains jump torpedoes.  When RQS forces are nearly overwhelmed a
signal is sent to the station which then launches all of its torpedoes.
Each torpedo is preset to enter jumpspace at the proper time.  One
torpedo is sent to each nearby system.  As part of the notification
signal additional data can be transmitted and sent with the torpedo such
as compostion of enemy forces.  When the torpedo arrives at its
destination it begins broadcasting its message to RQS bases.  This
system is a response to the Rape of Trin and currently only 1 in 3
systems are equiped with these stations.

REGENCY NAVY AND ARMY

This would seem to follow pretty much the Imperial model although there
looks like there might be a good debate taking off on this issue now.

QUARANTINE AREA OF OPERATIONS

>From PBJuzyk <psualum@aol.com>:

> The Quarantine border was extended to more defensible positions and is
> several parsecs deep to prevent high jump performance ships from leaping
> over the blockade.  By 1201 this border ran through the following
> subsectors:
>
>	Deneb: 		B - G - K - O
>	Reft:			C - B - F - E - I
>	Trojan Reach:	L - P - O
>	Riftspan Reaches:	C - G - F - E

So the Quarantine Line runs through Lamas/Deneb, Dunmag/Deneb, Usani/Usani,
Kamlar/Deneb, C/Reft, Macon/Reft, F/Reft, Usher/Reft, L/Trojan Reach,
P/Trojan Reach, O/Trojan Reach and the subsectors in the Riftspan Reaches.
Who maintains the Line in these *ihatei*-occupied subsectors in Trojan
Reach and the Riftspan Reaches?

What's the mission of the Quarantine Service?  Can anyone produce a map
of the entire Quarantine Line?  Are there any places were the Quarantine Line
has recently been expanded?  To follow the *POT* template we ought to provide
maps and UWP data for such worlds.

REGENCY MEGACORPS

Delgado Trading (miniturization, heavy mining & refining, publishing and
   trading)
- -A key player in the war against the Virus.

General Products (starships, non-starships, heavy machinery)
- -Quality problems were threatening existence by Rebellion.  Domain/Regency
 susbsidies would be likely in order to maintain a major shipbuilder (cf.
 the Chrysler bailout).

GSbAG (starships)
- -Probably doing well equipping the Quarantine Service and the Deneb Navy.

Hortalez et Cie (banking and investment)
- -With addition of Zirunkariish assets most likely dominates Domain.

Instellarms (military products)
- -Probably doing well, although mercenary actions can be expected to be
 limited in Deneb by government efforts to conserve resources.  Can be
 expected to favor the Expansionists and Santanocheevists.

Ling Standard Products (mining, electronics and computers, starships,
   starship systems, power generation, small arms)
- -Probably the primary commercial and military contractor combating the Virus.

SuSAG (chemicals, pharmaceuticals, geneering, extra-Imperial psi drugs)
- -Will the illegal psi drug manufacturing move into the Regency?  Obviously,
 SuSAG will support the Tolerant bloc, if not openly then certainly with
 financial backing.

Sternmetal Horizons (mining, manufacturing, power generation, food processors)
- -Probably doing well.

Tukera Lines (shipping)
- -Probably still active and possibly a supporter of the Imperialist bloc.

Vilani Bureaux (probably not active in Deneb after the Collapse):
  Makhidkarun
  Sharurshid
  Naasirka (assets acquired by LSP?)
  Zirunkariish (assets acquired by Hortalez)

*****

Happy Travelling,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

------------------------------

Bundle: 602
Archive-Message-Number: 7551
Date: Thu, 12 May 1994 09:19:54 -0600
From: RJR96326@vax1.utulsa.edu (J Roberson)
Subject: Too Good to pass up

> Judiasiam   == People who only play Clasic Traveller
> Christanity == People who play only CT and MegaTraveller
> Islam       == people who have embraced TNE?
Depending on your POV, it might be more applicable to equate the Mromons
with TNE people, making the TNE rules the Book of Mormon. Or better yet,
make TNE part of the Walkdenbooks New Age religions, perhaps with TNE being
the "Newly Revised PC Bible".

No offense meant to any of those groups, of course. Besides, I don't play
*any* form of Traveller; I just hang out here for the sci-fi. ;)


_________________________________
Eugenics: Chlorination of the Gene Pool.
Consistency is a Flaw.
J Roberson      RJR96326@vax1.utulsa.edu        Priss@io.com





------------------------------

Bundle: 602
Archive-Message-Number: 7552
Date: Fri, 13 May 1994 03:51:51 -0700
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: Aliens in the Regency...

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
What sophont species are to be found in the Regency in the New
Era?  What do you think the percentage breakdown of sophonts in
the Regency is?
 
 
Rodge.
 
 
 
 
 

------------------------------

Bundle: 602
Archive-Message-Number: 7553
Date: Fri, 13 May 1994 03:53:12 -0700
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: Stranded in the Regency...

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Many alien races supposedly travel abroad.  When the virus
struck, many of these travellers were stuck in the Regency far
away from their home worlds.
 
The Newts travelled around a lot, so there are probably a few of
them.  Any clues as to other species stuck in the Regency?
 
 
Rodge.









------------------------------

Bundle: 602
Archive-Message-Number: 7554
From: CHiggin@aol.com
Date: Fri, 13 May 94 09:22:55 EDT
Subject: Deep Space Stations


> From: bonnevil@mermaid.micro.umn.edu (Steven M Bonneville)

>On Deep Space Stations:

>It's possible they don't often make much economic sense.  (Maybe I'll do
>a quick analysis sometime.)  But they might make very good military
>sense, as a refueling depot.  All you need are the hulls for holding
>the LHyd fuel, tanker/tugs to haul them around and fill them up, and
>a parsec or so to hide them in.  I don't know whether the logistical
>assets to support such a venture would be worth tying up or not.

Believe me, they make enormous military sense!  Deep space stations 
(particularly mine) altered the entire strategic picture of the 
Islands War in Steve's TCS game.  The use of deep space stations would
have changed the entire course of the Fifth Frontier War, if the Zhos 
or the Imperials had used them...

Deep space stations are nearly impossible for the enemy to find *by
chance* (unlike solar systems); since they can be placed anywhere, 
there is NO border anymore, and no chance of predicting where the 
attack is coming from, and NO chance of intercepting the enemy fleet 
before it is in your system.  The war changes to one of fortifying and
defending bodies of strategic interest, like home worlds and major 
colonies.  In such an environment, habitable gas giant moons are a 
pearl beyond price, because the 100-diameter radius of a gas giant is 
well outside the orbits of the moons, giving the defender halfway 
decent warning of an enemy fleet on his doorstep... Otherwise, your 
planet better have massive orbital fortifications and/or planetary 
defenses, or it is a sitting duck for the first fleet to pop out of 
jump-space at the 100-diameter limit.  Your fleet will have no chance 
to defend against that attack before the enemy fleet is close enough 
to your world to bombard it or launch a ground assault.

The above comments about habitable gas giant moons also apply to 
hostile inner-zone worlds that are inside the 100-diameter jump limit 
of a star... They are also defensible with a fleet.  Perhaps strategic
considerations merited the colonization of some of those 
"overpopulated hellholes"?

I've rationalized the use of deep space stations in the Islands, and 
lack of their use by the Imperium by deciding that it is a very 
difficult navigational task to jump to and from deep space points. 
The Island nations had a good supply of such skilled navigators 
because the Island worlds are so scattered that merchant ships and 
many military vessels *must* use multiple deep-space jumps to get 
anywhere.  Most of the Imperial worlds are close enough together that 
Imperial ships can jump from world to world, and thus the necessary 
skill to be a ship's navigator isn't as high, and deep-space jumping 
is not a standard part of basic Imperial navigator training.  I 
also venture to add that Impy merchants consider deep-space jumping
as risky a practice as burning unrefined fuel in your jump drive, and 
discourage it.  So do their insurers.  Someone else can explain why 
the Imperial Navy and Zho Navy don't do it very often...

                            -- Cynthia,
                                aka Reginald Bell, 
                                PM of New Home, 5717-5728 AD.




------------------------------

Bundle: 602
Archive-Message-Number: 7555
Date: Fri, 13 May 1994 08:40:19 -0500
From: bonnevil@mermaid.micro.umn.edu (Steven M Bonneville)
Subject: Re: Green Virus

Andy Lilly writes:

>If you don't like the TNE computer virus, why not just replace it with a
>'green' virus, i.e. one that kills off plants or living creatures.
   
The effects would be too different.  First, viruses tend to be *very*
species specific.  It would be likely the outside alien governments
would get missed.  Second, if it destroyed the ecosystems of planets,
the Imperial core would be essentially rendered uninhabitable, especially
if the "virus" was persistent in nature.  Third, unlike the computer
virus, direct physical contact would be required to spread the virus.
Fourth, the rate of spread would either be slow enough to save outliers
(like, say, the Solomani Confederation), or unnoticable enough to 
sneak into Deneb undectected.  

It might be possible to work up a plausible scenario of some sort, but
it would be substantially different in form than the TNE scenario.


  Steve Bonneville
  <bonnevil@mermaid.micro.umn.edu>


------------------------------

Bundle: 602
Archive-Message-Number: 7556
Date: Fri, 13 May 94 13:37:14 EDT
From: 13-May-1994 1332 <mschwartz@asabet.enet.dec.com>
Subject: Interested in Sky Galleons of Mars Campaign?

(This had been sent out on the SPACE:1889 list and got some response.  I figured
I had nothing to lose by trying a sligtly larger audience.  Respond by E-mail,
not to the Traveller list)

Out of curiousity, how many of you are interested in Sky Galleons of Mars,
that is, you play (or would if you had more opponents, scenarios etc.)?

For those who don't remember, SGoM is the game of sky vessel combat that is
somewhat cut down and included in Space:1889.

A second question for those who are interested, would you be interested in 
playing in a campaign game of the English & Regency fleet vs the Oenotrians
(plus perhaps High Martian & pirate problems)?

Roughly, what I have in mind is for various Admirals and squadron leaders
to have to carry out a variety of missions (patrols, support the ground troops,
try to disrupt enemy supplies, put down pirates, or direct assault on enemy
fleets) on a campaign level.  Where opposing forces arrive in the same place
at the same time, a battle is fought using SGoM.  

If there is interest shown, I'll expand on these ideas a bit.

		Ted7

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Sun, 15 May 94 22:00:03 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #603: Msgs 7557-7568 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Sun May 15 22:00:03 EDT 1994
Reply-To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Errors-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 15 May 94 22:00:03 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #603: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 603  7557 12-May-1994 Mail Delivery S  Returned mail: User unknown <<    -----
 603  7558 13-May-1994 "Bruce Johnson"  Splitting group << I'm much more in fav
 603  7559 13-May-1994 "Bruce Johnson"  Magazine capacity <<  I asked about in 
 603  7560 13-May-1994 Kerry Harrison   History of the Imperium Working Group (
 603  7561 13-May-1994 David Johnson    Shall Not Perish 15 - Sword Worlds << G
 603  7562 13-May-1994 David Johnson    Deep Space Jump Navigation << Gentlesop
 603  7563 13-May-1994 Roger Sanger     To split or not to split... << Remember
 603  7564 13-May-1994 David Johnson    No More Post-Imperial Era (PIE) In the 
 603  7565 13-May-1994 Steven M Bonnev  Re: Deep Space Stations << J Roberson <
 603  7566 13-May-1994 David Johnson    Earth Colonies - MT#1 Library Data << G
 603  7567 13-May-1994 David Johnson    Earth Colonies - Sirius Subsector << Ge
 603  7568 14-May-1994 PPUGLIESE@pimac  Re: TML nightly: Msgs 7551-7561 V74#3 <

------------------------------

Bundle: 603
Archive-Message-Number: 7557
Subject: [Mailer-Daemon@cbmmail.commodore.com: Returned mail: User unknown]
Date: Thu, 12 May 94 21:11:28 EDT
From: Mailer-Daemon@cbmmail.commodore.com (Mail Delivery Subsystem)
Subject: Returned mail: User unknown

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
Connected to gp1:
>>> RCPT To:<jjszucs@gp1.cbm.commodore.com>
<<< 550 <jjszucs@gp1.cbm.commodore.com>... User unknown
550 <jjszucs@gp1.cbm.commodore.com>... User unknown

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To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Thu, 12 May 94 20:30:04 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML nightly: Msgs 7550-7550 V74#2
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Thu May 12 20:30:03 EDT 1994
Reply-To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Errors-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca
Precedence: bulk


Please drop jjszucs off mailing list.


Thanks



------------------------------

Bundle: 603
Archive-Message-Number: 7558
From: "Bruce Johnson" <JOHNSON@tonic.pharm.arizona.edu>
Date:         Fri, 13 May 1994 12:54:20 MST
Subject:      Splitting group

I'm much more in favor of Mike Basinger's idea of Message headers, 
rather than splitting the group.  I fear serious balkanization of the 
group will be to the detriment of all involved.  IMHO I think there's 
more than enough room for everyone to contribute to all of it.  Just no 
more damn flame wars over 'Tastes great! Less Filling! CT! TNE!'  
because once the group is split once, soon there will be pressure to 
split it again 'RCES! No, Regency!'  Besides, what happens when 
GDW changes it again...
Bruce Johnson
The University of Arizona
johnson@tonic.pharm.arizona.edu (work :-(
bej@gas.uug.arizona.edu (play :-)

My opinions, All Mine! 

------------------------------

Bundle: 603
Archive-Message-Number: 7559
From: "Bruce Johnson" <JOHNSON@tonic.pharm.arizona.edu>
Date:         Fri, 13 May 1994 13:01:08 MST
Subject:      Magazine capacity

	I asked about in rec.guns about practical limits to magazine 
capacities, and recieved a bunch of information.  However, the main 
points brouup were the length of a magazine and the weight of the 
rounds. Long ones are more unwieldy, and the weight of more than 
about 30 rounds of, say, 5.56 NATO ammunition as an example, starts 
comprising the bulk of the weight of the gun.

	Another point that was brought up was the undesireability of 
having one long vs. several short mags...suppose your one long one 
jams? The consensus on that was you're in deep feces then.  Many 
lighter magazines are also easier to distribute on ones person than 
one big one.

	So therefore, barring very strange circumstances, it's probably 
in a characters best interest  (reliability, weight, etc.) to carry a bunch 
of smaller magazines, anyway.

	
Bruce Johnson
The University of Arizona
johnson@tonic.pharm.arizona.edu (work :-(
bej@gas.uug.arizona.edu (play :-)

My opinions, All Mine! 

------------------------------

Bundle: 603
Archive-Message-Number: 7560
Date: Fri, 13 May 1994 17:21:30 -0500 (CDT)
From: Kerry Harrison <kerry@illuminati.io.com>
Subject: History of the Imperium Working Group (HIWG)


HISTORY OF THE IMPERIUM WORKING GROUP
- --Clay Bush, 30-April-1994

This a general post for all Traveller afficionados out there. It's an
insider's view of a Traveller fan organization.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------

What is HIWG?
============= 
HIWG is a multi-national organization of Traveller fans. That's as specific a
definition as I've come up with.
 
It started in 1987 when MegaTraveller came out, and was to develop Imperial
history. It did a lot of this, and many ideas went into Rebellion Sourcebook
and other products. It outgrew this focus, though, as people exchanged
programs, wrote up sectors, and developed races.

A good portion of MEMBERS' work has seen print. HIWG itself has several
newsletters (AAB Proceedings is the general newsletter, STARBURST is the
Australia-New Zealand newsletter, and WHITE NOISE is the current United
Kingdom newsletter), but it does not and will not publish any supplements
itself. No collection of 100+ scattered people can imitate a company
successfully.
 
Instead, there is a list of people who joined HIWG, wrote some documents, and
developed their ideas enough that GDW (or others) chose to publish them.
 
We see our function as a meeting place for fans, and we expect good things to
happen from people interacting. It's hard to predict what will develop in
advance, as we've discovered.

The discussion has been muted as everyone waited to see TNE when it came out.
It is picking up steam, however, now that all the core pieces of TNE are out.

LAND GRANTS 
To encourage ownership and friendly competition, we allocated sectors and
areas to "analysts." Some of this material has seen print as library data,
some published sectors have had their worlds named by HIWgers, and others are
very sketchy. HIWG got credits, but Fugate did end MTJ4 with a note that HIWG
material was too much "why" and not enough start-adventure-here. 

Nevertheless, much of HIWG's material is about detailing sectors and their
inhabitants. GDW selected specific a HIWG member to collapse the rest of Old
Expanses, and other "collapse the sector" projects are underway. The results
will be in the HIWG library, along with the collected official sector UWP
files.

To prevent overloading one person, HIWG divided the Imperial universe into
four "quadrants." The four met at Reference/Core. With the Virus leveling
Imperial space, HIWG may develop some new organization to better fit the new
realities. It's being kicked around by members. 

OTHER PROJECTS
There were also a number of equipment and ship designs that HIWGers
exchanged.
Witha new system (Fire, Fusion, and Steel) to absorb, this has died down. It
will pick up after members finish revising their worksheets and programs. We
are looking at starting a design special interest group to handle exchanging
this information.

(Bryan Borich's "Starships, Starports, and Vehicles" distributed MT craft
designs. People contributed their own, and Bryan verified, compiled, and
distributed them. Bryan's been busy with work in that "real world" where we
get paychecks, and FF&S is still new, but I expect a restart before the 1994
is out.)
 
There is also some interest in a Classic Traveller working group and an
Alternate Technologies working group. Neither is yet a working entity, but
HIWG's results have always depended on what members decided to put in.

HIWG LIBRARY 
Most work is exchanged in numbered documents. (The numbering system is being
revised to separate New Era from Rebellion era work.) The library also
contains a few programs, sector UWP files, and other collected data.

HIWG documents are available on disk or as hardcopy. I think most people
reading this post will prefer the disk versions. If I pulled together all the
documents and files that have been done, I would fill eight 1.44MB disks.

(If a HIWGer writes an adventure, it goes off to someone as a submission. And
quite a few get published. The adventures just aren't in the HIWG library.)

MEMBERSHIP
Membership gets you copies of AAB Proceedings, a membership directory, and a
list of documents. Programs we exchange between people who have the same
machines (Mac, IBM, Atari), and interest groups with their own newsletter
form
around interesting areas.

Membership is available at US$2.00 per issue of AABP from the membership
secretary. Usual membership payment is US$12. Send to: 
  
  HIWG-North America:
  Clay Bush; PO Box 895; Limon, CO 80828; USA
  C.BUSH3@GENIE.GEIS.COM
  
  HIWG-Australia:
  David Schneider; 5 East Avene; Allenby Gardens; SA 5009; Australia
  GRANT@CLEESE.APANA.ORG.AU

  HIWG-UK:
  Nick Law; Flat 4; 12 Boyne Park; Tunbridge Wells; Kent TN4 8ET; U.K.
  No email




------------------------------

Bundle: 603
Archive-Message-Number: 7561
Date: Fri, 13 May 94 19:01:09 CDT
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Shall Not Perish 15 - Sword Worlds

Gentlesophonts:

From Thursday night, Phil Pugliese <PPUGLIESE@pimacc.pima.edu> writes:

> Subject: Sword Worlds History vs US History
> 
> thought that I should raise the point that basing an argument upon fun-
> damentals that others don't accept will usually result in a conclusion
> that those others won't accept either.

Good point.  I hope I'm not trying to `force' the Sword Worlds into my own
view of how they `should' be but clearly that's how I'm being perceived.
I'll have to try harder.
 

One quick diversion, Stewart Eyres <spe@jb.man.ac.uk> writes:

> Subject: L'oeul d'Dieu 3010 B-98A510-B N Ni, Wa, Gg
> 
> Comments:	This water world is under the aegis of Sharurshid, the 
> 		megacorporation specialising in rare trade goods.

This is some really good stuff, except I thought Sharurshid and the other
Vilani megacorps had withdrawn to the Ziru Sirka during the Rebellion?
[WARNING: I don't have TNE!]  It seems to me that even if the Vilani
Bureaux had maintained a presence in the Domain of Deneb this presence
would have been cut-off by the Virus and the Quarantine Line and the
`Imperial' megacorps would have assumed control of former Bureaux assets.


Now back to the Sword Worlds.  Hans Rancke <rancke@diku.dk> writes:

> Encountering their TL 12 fleet en route. Now what?

Well, first, remember in my scenario, Sacnoth hasn't been selling any TL 12
goods to Gram, and since they probably can't get any from the Darrians
or the Imperium (the Zhodani, maybe, I admit, but Sacnoth has similar access)
so the Sacnoth Fleet only encouters a TL 11 Gram Fleet.  (I believe this was
the case in the 5FW.  Forces from different worlds - Gram and Joyeuse -
reflected the TL of the specific world.  Anyone have easy access to those
*Fifth Frontier War* counters who can check for sure?)

Before I go further, let me say that I've taken to heart Hans's (and Phil's)
comments that I should focus on the `facts at hand'.  I'm really trying to
come to an understanding of the situation based upon the facts rather than
my own view of `how it ought to be'.  I just see many inconsistencies in
what few facts we have at hand.

> (Or _not_ encountering 
> it, which would be a lot more worrying ;-).

Well, yes, but this is the nature of interstellar warfare in the Traveller
universe.  :-)

> And the next thing you know Sacnoth is being visited by the combined fleets
> of the rest of the Sword Worlds who are anxious to ensure that you won't
> visit their world next.

Well, maybe, except that if Sacnoth does it's `front work' some of the
other Sword Worlds will be allied or at least tolerant of it's actions.  If
it hits the `leader' of the opposition first the remaining worlds will be
less likely to jump up for their own `chance in the barrel'.

> Perhaps this gave
> them an Us-and-Them mentality that prevails to this day.

Are those refugees *Piper's* `original Sword Worlders' or GDW's?  :-)
I believe the original GDW Sword Worlders were merely fleeing the
Interstellar Wars rather than their own specific defeat.

This might be true, but I don't think Sacnoth (or whoever) will need to
`cripple' the other worlds in order to dominate the Confederation.

> Which may be why Sachnoth is due for their own downturn on the cycle in the
> not too distant future.

I admit, if these `cycles' exist it explains a lot, but I just don't see
what causes them, nor understand why the same thing hasn't happened in the
Imperium or the Darrian Confederation.

> Think about this for a moment. Sacnoth is not the US in that analogy, they 
> are another one of the Latin nations.

Okay, but I don't believe this situation is analogous in terms of the TL
disparities (I'll get to that in a bit).  In a `Latin' scenario with no US
I see several different blocs centered about the `stronger' nations like
Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, and Colombia (which will see much more stability
when the US drug market disappears).  This is quite similar to Sword
Worlds history.  If one world rises to dominance (possibly with Zhodani
aid) I suspect it will stay there.  In a feudal technocracy, it ought to
be the highest tech world.

BTW, if Gram does maintain its position with Zhodani aid *and* the Sword
Worlders have this `us vs. them' mentality it seems much more likely to
me that a combined fleet is going to show up at Gram, especially in light
of the anti-Zhodani sentiment in the Confederation.

> How significant is an advantage of 12 over 11 and 10?
> a TL 12 fleet is twice as efficient, ton for ton, as a TL 11 and
> six times as efficient as TL 10.

Another measure would be the TL mods used in *5FW*.  I don't remember the
details (and my copy is 250 mi. away in Fort Worth) but I seem to
remember just a few battalions of TL 15 Imperial troops being able to
hold off several TL 10-11 corps of Sword Worlders.  Let's use the
figures you've quoted until someone else digs up their copy of *5FW*.

> What is the population of Sacnoth compared to the rest of the
> Confederation? It's no use being twice as good as the other fellow if 
> there's 10 of him.)

Okay, let's look at the info I posted a while back:

Sword Worlds Subsector Data c1120 (from *MTJ* #3)
Tizon (+6)      0922 B386887-A M   Ri                   323 Sw  K2VI M3D
Narsil (+6)     0927 B574A55-A M   Hi In                224 Sw  M0II M6D
Anduril (+7)    1026 B985855-B M   Ri                   222 Sw  F2V
Gram (+8)       1223 A895957-B M   Hi In Cp             603 Sw  F2D M2D
Sacnoth (+7)    1325 B775956-C M   Hi In                301 Sw* F9V M8D
Sting (+5)      1525 B645896-A M                        302 Sw* M0V

These are all the pop 8+ Sword Worlds.  Gram, at twice the population
of Sacnoth, ought to be able to fight the higher tech Sacnoth to a standstill.
Anduril, at one-tenth the population of Sacnoth, could choose the `winner'
in such a conflict.  Narsil, at a ten-to-one advantage over Sacnoth, suffers
a twelve-to-one technological disadvantage.  Seems a Sacnoth-Anduril alliance
should be able to topple those `Zho-puppets' on Gram.  Since Gram is the
capital that suggests a Gram-Anduril alliance (or Zhodani aid).

>   -  even if the other worlds don't buy TL 12 ships
> elsewhere.

Where?  I doubt the Imperium or the Darrians would sell to the Sword Worlds.
The Zhodani, maybe, but what advantage do *they* have in fostering instability
in the Confederation?  A stable Sword Worlds on the border of the Imperium
would have been in the interest of the Zhodani!

> Depends on what he buys. Some things (like computers) would be risky, other
> things could be checked against sabotage.

I'm wasn't thinking sabotage - I was thinking war-time embargo.  Tough to
wage a military campaign if you're buying your ammo-vehicles-medkits-
transport ships-*et al* from your adversary.

> But perhaps he buys them from the
> Imperium instead. After all, they are propably playing the US to the Sword
> Worlds' Latin America.

I doubt it.  At the risk of beating a dead horse, if allied Mexican-
Brazilian-Argentine troops had recently occupied San Diego and San Antonio
you can bet there would be *a lot* of support in the US for much more than
just `fostering instability' in Latin America.  (It's often fashionable to
make light of US resolve as being `typical' of great powers like the
Imperium but keep in mind the last time any `foreign' troops were in the
US proper they were from Virginia, Georgia and Maryland!)  It's clear
that any supposed efforts by the Imperium to merely foster instability
in the Sword Worlds have been unsuccessful - it hasn't prevented them
from attacking every time the Zhos get a wild hair.

> I don't see how that follows at all. The only times the Sword Worlds
> invade the Imperium is with promise of Zhodani help. You can't make
> many assumptions based on how people behave when they think they have
> a powerful ally.

I'm not sure I understand your point.  Regardless of why the Sword Worlds
have attacked the Imperium there are clearly reasons why the Imperium
hasn't `dealt' with the Sword Worlds long ago.  I doubt the Zhodani would
have gone to war over an Imperial invasion of the Sword Worlds so there
must be some reason the Sword Worlds themselves were able to deter such
action.

I can't reconcile this `fact' with the proposed `cycles'.  (And yet, I
can't reconcile Gram's leadership either.  I'm still generally confused
and dissatisfied.)

> Based on the constant instability of the Sword Worlds it seems to me that
> that may be precisely what the Imperium has been doing.
> 
> On the contrary, if the Imperium has been doing that it explains why the
> Sword Worlds are PO'd enough to keep on joining an alliance that has struck 
> out again and again.

Again, this seems contradictory to me.  Any Imperial meddling in the Sword
Worlds has caused the *opposite* result - Sword Worlds incursions - so
why hasn't the Imperium sent ". . . the [Imperial] Marines to that little
[subsector spinward of Glisten] and *stopped* that problem!"?

> >The Zhodani may be a factor
> 
> I've no doubt they are a major factor.

Okay, this seems the only reasonable solution.  The Zhodani are supporting
Gram in its leadership of the Confederation.  Through this support, and
*despite* the generally anti-Zhodani sentiments in the Sword Worlds, Gram
is able to maintain its leadership in spite of the greater technological
accomlishments of Sacnoth.  In addition to it's support of Gram, the
Consulate has made it clear to the Imperium that it will not tolerate
direct action against the Confederation.

In a sense, the Sword Worlds have been nothing more than a Zhodani client
state.  (Ouch!  That's tough to admit.)  To continue to tromp on my Latin
American analogy, it's as if the Soviets had supported a Cuban-Mexican-
Brazilian-Argentine-*et al* confederation that overran Florida, Texas,
and California every few decades (and Lanth and Glisten are more like
Yuma, Del Rio, and Key West).  It's shaky, but I can understand it.
Maybe the `anti-Zhodani sentiment' in the Sword Worlds was just Imperial
propaganda?  (More likely, it was another poorly-considered `rationali-
zation' by the original developers used to explain why psionics weren't
rampant in the non-Imperial Sword Worlds.)

Given this, one would expect some major changes in this relationship now
that the Virus has severed Deneb's connection with the Imperium and there
has been some *rapproachement* with the Zhodani.  The Zhodani no longer
get as much value from supporting Gram.  Scanoth rises triumphant!?!  :-)

> I really think you should try to make up an explanation that fits the known
> facts rather than to make up an explanation and change the facts to fit them.

> Perhaps you'll come up with something useful.

So, what do you think?  Have I done it?  :-)

> There's no reason why a king should welcome a feudal pattern just because
> their own power is based on it. And, in fact, we KNOW they don't. If they
> did the Sword Worlds would be an empire instead of a confederation.

Well, I guess I still haven't explained my view of what a feudal technocracy
is.  The Sword Worlds leaders may be called `kings' but they're more like
`CEOs' - they are at the top of a huge, conglomerate, capitalist, economic
power structure.  They don't have an `empire' just like the `barons' of
the Japanese `keiritsu' don't.  They have a cooperative arrangement - a
Confederation.

I think this has been some good work.  It's certainly helped me to understand
the Sword Worlds better.  I just hope Phil Pugliese:

> I personally feel, considering the 
> preceding text, that attempting to minutely dissect the evolution of the 
> Sworld Worlds will inevitably be a sterile exercise.

is wrong.  :-)

Peace,

David Johnson
Colonel, (ret.), SWCAF
Houston, Texas, USA

------------------------------

Bundle: 603
Archive-Message-Number: 7562
Date: Fri, 13 May 94 20:10:15 CDT
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Deep Space Jump Navigation

Gentlesophonts:

Okay, before I start *please* keep in mind two things: first, I'm the
*background* guy who generally has little use for rules; and second, I'm
only rated at Navigator-1!  :-)

Matt Good? <mgood@MIT.EDU> writes:

> I think that instead it's calculations based on charted positions,
> etc.  While your idea is interesting, how do you locate the
> targets?

Okay, I've got some sort of `jump space gravity well detector' - maybe
it's a `Johnsonometer'?  :-)  It doesn't matter that those `gravity waves'
from that star in the next system are 3.26 years old because the relative
motion between here and there in the past 3.26 years isn't significant.
(Didn't the *World Builders' Handbook* say I could `scan' systems at
interstellar distances?)  This also makes Navigation skill useful (since
even my Model 1/bis can just input coordinates into the nav'puter).

> Also, this seems to be against the 100 diameter idea: you
> want to be far away from gravity wells, not close to them.

Actually, no.  I want to get close (that's the whole idea, right) but I
can't get *too* close or my jump drive goes wacko.
 
> I think that you target your ship towards a coordinate in space,
> not towards a gravity well...

If this is how it works, how do I explore new territory?  Just jump out
there and hope there's a system?  I supposed I can take astronomical
measurements for coordinates, but isn't that just `photonic' targeting?

> If I were a player in your campaign, I would want to know how my ship
> is targeting gravity wells parsecs away:

Same way whomever provide those coordinates the first time, got them.

> that would indicate alot of 
> interesting possiblities ;-)

I'm eager to hear them!

Happy Travelling,

David Johnson
A.S., Jumpspace Philosophy  :-)
(A little intimidated by MIT e-mail addresses!)
Houston, Texas, USA

------------------------------

Bundle: 603
Archive-Message-Number: 7563
Date: Fri, 13 May 1994 18:34:30 -0700
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: To split or not to split...


Remember when I suggested a new Regency-specific mailing list?
Well, I'm sure glad it DIDN'T come about.

As for seperate areas for TNE and pre-TNE Traveller, well...

The Pros:
- ---------
You might placate some of the people who ditched due to TNE, and some of 
them might come back to participate.

The Cons:
- ---------
More administrative work for James -- keeping two lists, etc.
Possible reduction of the critical mass that has been achieved on TML.
Creates a little more hassle for those who like partaking in discussions
and swapping in all eras.
You can already discuss anything relating to Traveller on the TML, from any
era -- to diminish its subject matter for the aesthetic concerns of a 
handful seems ludicrous.

The participation level of those who ditched wasn't that high anyways.
If TML is not regulated/restricted from CT/MT posts, TML'ers will go
right on posting such, to the loss of those who subscribe to the subject-
limited list exclusively.

- --------------------------------------------

Seems like a rather lopsided issue to me.

I prefer the general Traveller theme.  It's much simpler -- you read the
messages you want to read.  You keep the messages you want to keep.

Plus, I love bigger crowds -- 500 is a pretty big crowd!

Jibbering,
Rodge.

------------------------------

Bundle: 603
Archive-Message-Number: 7564
Date: Fri, 13 May 94 20:41:52 CDT
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: No More Post-Imperial Era (PIE) In the Sky!

Gentlesophonts:

Our illustrious Administrator <jamesp@sp-eug.com> writes:

> Subject: Pre-TNE Traveller Mailing List Planned
> 
> I am announcing my plans to create a second Traveller Mailing List.

To which I eagerly reply, "Sign me up!"

> I have not yet decided on a name for this sublist. Nor am I taking
> subscriptions for it at this time. The TML, however, will be the first
> to know when the mechanisms are ready.

Okay, okay, so I'm a little *too* eager.  I've two questions though.
Where do non-CT/MT, non-TNE Traveller discussion (like the Earth Colonies)
end up? And secondly, when do we get a Pre-MT/Rebellion mailing list?  :-)


Mike Basinger <dbasinge@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu> suggests:

> I think instead of dividing the mail listing, the TML should adapt a
> subject heading format, similar to the ones used on rec.games.frp.misc.

This might be a good idea.  James, how difficult would it be to develop
a mechanism that would `reject' messages that didn't conform to this format
like you already have for messages with 80+ characters per line?

Peace,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA
(Now wondering why I've been helping to develop a Regency sourcebook)

------------------------------

Bundle: 603
Archive-Message-Number: 7565
Date: Fri, 13 May 1994 22:47:04 -0500
From: bonnevil@mermaid.micro.umn.edu (Steven M Bonneville)
Subject: Re: Deep Space Stations

J Roberson <RJR96326@vax1.utulsa.edu> writes:

>No offense meant to any of those groups, of course. Besides, I don't play
>*any* form of Traveller; I just hang out here for the sci-fi. ;)

INFIDEL!!!!!!!  :)


Cynthia Higginbotham <CHiggin@aol.com> writes:

[many very useful comments on deep-space refueling deleted]

>I also venture to add that Impy merchants consider deep-space jumping
>as risky a practice as burning unrefined fuel in your jump drive, and
>discourage it.  So do their insurers.  Someone else can explain why
>the Imperial Navy and Zho Navy don't do it very often...

To illuminate why merchants would find deep space jumping dangerous,
consider this.  When you jump into a deep-space hex, you have no 
"landmarks" to orient by -- normally, in a stellar system, you have a 
nearby star and some planets to fix your location, but for a deep space
station, you are dependent on an accurate jump and the station's 
radio beacon/radar reflector.  On _Brilliant Lances_ scale, a ship
jumping 100 diameters from a size-8 world is a bit over 40 hexes away
from target.  Finding a lone station at even that close a range could 
be tricky.  And if the station isn't where you think it is or your 
calculations are substantially off, you and your ship may be waiting a
long time to be found.

My guess as to why the IN and ZN don't seem to use deep space refueling
much is two-fold.  First, it may be tricky to maintain fuel levels in
the cache without tying up too many fleet tankers, especially if it
is in a forward area.  Cynthia, what's your experience with this?  It
may also be that we just don't hear much about them -- our usual source
of info is the TNS, and such bases would usually be secret installations.

I think that such stations have been used -- my interpretation of the
4FW "Battle of Two Suns" which was "midway between Yres and Menorb"
as depicted in the CT adventure _The Kinunir_ sounds a lot like a 
fight over a fueling and resupply base in deep space.  It would explain
why the fates of Efate, Yres, and Menorb hung in the balance over the
outcome, and why afterward the Zhodani supply lines were too long.
It would also explain why the battlefield may still have ships from which
parts could be salvaged.

  Steve Bonneville
  <bonnevil@mermaid.micro.umn.edu>


------------------------------

Bundle: 603
Archive-Message-Number: 7566
Date: Fri, 13 May 94 22:48:38 CDT
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Earth Colonies - MT#1 Library Data

Gentlesophonts:

The following library data first appeared in *Melbourne Times* #1:

CREATE: An acronym for Cultural Revelation, Appreciation, Tolerance and
Education, CREATE is a Nyanzan quasi-governmental organization responsible for
development and promotion of artistic and cultural interchanges among
Federation worlds as well as between the Federation and other Colonial States. 
Largely through the efforts of CREATE, Nyanzan artistic and cultural endeavors
are not only recognized but widely applauded throughout the Colonies Sphere. 
Artists from across the Sphere are drawn to the many educational institutions
operated by CREATE on Federation worlds.

Gaez Gavvi Eudrael (GGE): Roughly translated as "External Security
Directorate", the GGE is the primary Meren intelligence agency in the Colonies
Sphere.  Focused mainly on countering Aeroi efforts during the Markets War, its
operations have been scaled back with the end of that conflict.  Still, the GGE
is believed to have recruited Dolphin and Human agents from most Colonial
States in recent years.

House Moreira: A major Ouroran mercantile entity, Moreira provides passenger
and freight transport among Community worlds and operates interface routes as
well.  It is a Community leader in the manufacture and export of starships,
computers and robotics, and a variety of vehicles and crafts.  Moreira is also
the largest operator of starports in the community.
Lucent Templars: An elite military order of the Abrahamic Synod whose members
are found in all of the Synod's military services.  Appointment to the order is
made personally by the Supreme Aspirant and entails extensive, and highly
secret, religious and military training.  Claims that this includes training in
psionic disciplines have been vehemently denied by the order and have never
been substantiated by reliable sources.

Markets War: Period of confrontation (c2955-3000) between Aeroi and Meren
interests over access to markets in the Colonies Sphere.  While the two
entities never actually met in all-out war, each was involved in various
activities, including market monopolization, military support of local
governments and indigenous guerrilla movements, commercial and political
espionage, financial leveraging and arbitrage, and industrial and mercantile
sabotage, that resulted in often intense tension in the region.  Ended with the
political collapse of the Meren Expansionist Clique and the mysterious withdraw
of many Meren elements to their own sphere.

Prometheus Foundation: An independent research and development house that has
been instrumental in the dissemination of technology throughout the Colonies
Sphere.  Prometheus agents and researches are encountered throughout the Sphere
wherever technology is being developed.  Many states are critical of the
Foundation's insistence on sharing its technological innovations but none have
been willing to forego the advantages of cooperation with the Foundation.  The
Prometheus Foundation's origins trace back to a late 20th Century arms
manufacturer that translated military technology into commercial technology for
developing nations.  Among its more famous accomplishments has been the
subsector organization used by most States in the Sphere that was developed to
foster cooperation across borders.  The Prometheus Foundation also provides
minimum Class E starport facilities throughout the Sphere where such facilities
are beyond the capability of individual worlds.

Transtellar Lines: One of the major Commonwealth interstellar carriers,
Transtellar liners and freighters are common throughout Commonwealth space and
beyond.  Transtellar operates interface routes to all major Colonial States. 
Transtellar's origins trace back to a corporate charter granted during the
period of early sub-light re-colonization just prior to the development of jump
drive.

Universidad de Aztlan: The major university of the Empire of Aztlan is one of
the most respected educational institutions in the Colonies Sphere in the
fields of engineering and technology.  In addition to training cadets for the
Empire's military services the Universidad de Aztlan also graduates the
majority of the Empire's shipwrights and other starship industry technicians. 
Unlike other Aztlan universities, the UdeA does not accept students from
outside the Empire.

Ysinal udi-Quinan: The major Aeroi mercantile house in Auriga subsector is also
the largest organization of its type in the entire Colonies Sphere.  From its
headquarters on hvi-Unapfi, Ysinal udi-Quinan manages Aeroi investment and
trade development activities throughout the Sphere.  Even though a
quasi-governmental agency, Ysinal udi-Quinan includes several non-Aeroi
corporations among its holdings.

*****

Happy Travelling,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

------------------------------

Bundle: 603
Archive-Message-Number: 7567
Date: Fri, 13 May 94 23:00:32 CDT
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Earth Colonies - Sirius Subsector

Gentlesophonts:

The following UWP data for Sirius Subsector (where Earth is located) is
from an Earth Colonies Development League Working Paper:

Sirius Subsector (G-III)

hex & name		UPP      bases	remarks		PBG Al spectral class
1714.19 Leyte		E210215-5     Lo Ni		703 Az K0D
1716.19 Dairen		D9635CA-7     Ni		510 Na M7V M0V
1718.20 Sirius Belt	E00047A-8     As Ni		402 Na A1V A0D
1718.27 Makino		D561474-9 S   Ni S:Co		724 Na G5V
1720.19 Earth		A867988-D DWX Hi Cp Ho		814 Co G2V
1811.25 Lingayen	B4596A9-C N   Ni N:Co		804 Na M2V
1813.22 Oporto		D6A3566-8 S   Fl Ni S:Co	312 Na F6V K2V M0V
1814.19 Takla Makan	AB70755-D N   De N:Co		802 Na M1V
1817.22 Ghee		EAA8440-8     Fl Ni		414 Co M0V
1820.25 Ulan-Ude	A555656-B NX  Ag Ni		604 Co G1IV
1911.20 Ogadai		E889687-5     Ni Ri		804 Co K3V M0V
1913.22 Orozco		BA77555-9 N   Ag Ni N:Co	113 Na M1V M0V
1916.20 Novo Uralsk	D895587-8     Ag Ni		410 Co K1V A0D M4V
1917.20 Lalibela	E773342-2     Lo Ni		113 Co K2V M0V
1919.20 Ensanche	A564483-D X   Ni		514 Co M5V M5V
2017.23 Oyama		E6755A9-5     Ag Ni		902 Na G5V
2019.20 al-Ghazali	B9666CC-B N   Ag Ni		602 Co G8V
2019.24 Bakwanga	BB93786-9			500 Na K2V K5V
2019.27 Rolvaag		E314232-3     Ic Lo Ni		510 Na K0D
2020.22 Saavedra	B694430-B NX  Ni		603 Co M4V
2020.26 Udaipur		A76A68D-A     Wa Ni Ri		104 Na G2V
2119.19 VanMaanen's  	A000785-C     As Na		203 Na G1D
2213.21 Aurobindo	A953576-B     Po Ni		904 Na K0IV
2213.27 Maharashtra	C510665-9     Na Ni		404 Na M4VI
2313.19 Orinoco		A762576-D N   Ni N:Co		603 Na G5V
2315.21 Bulawayo	E66349B-8     Ni		614 Na K0V
2315.26 Kinabalu	EB91547-7     Ni		810 Na K6V M0V
2316.24 Edo		C854531-8 S   Ag Ni S:Co	914 Na M0V
2318.21 Roodepoort	E76848A-7     Ni		723 Co M5V
2320.19 al-Hariri	E981387-3     Lo Ni		404 Na M2V
2320.25 Mbandaka	C406565-8 S   Ic Va Ni S:Co  	513 Na A0D
2411.23 Nagpur		E6A6346-4     Fl Lo Ni		711 Th K7V
2412.27 OleMweia's	A00068A-D     As Na Ni		401 Na M5VI
2416.22 al-Mansur	ABD1776-C NX			704 Th M3V

Alignment codes: Az-Empire of Aztlan, Co-Commonwealth of Earth, Na-Non-aligned,
Th-Theridian League.

The Sirius subsector is named for its brightest star (at 1718.20) and contains
34 worlds including the Dolphin and Human homeworld of Earth 1720.19.  The
highest population is 8 billion at Earth.  The highest tech level is 13, at
Takla Makan, Ensanche, Orinoco, OleMweia's Belt and also at Earth.
Ten worlds in the subsector claim allegiance to the Commonwealth of Earth,
including its capital, Earth.  Two worlds claim allegiance to the Theridian
League to trailward in Theridia subsector and one world claims allegiance to
the Empire of Aztlan to spinward in Procyon subsector.

*****

All of these worlds (except Earth) were generated using the variant world
generation rules I posted previously.

Happy Travelling,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

------------------------------

Bundle: 603
Archive-Message-Number: 7568
Date: 14 May 1994 01:23:15 -0700
From: PPUGLIESE@pimacc.pima.edu
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Msgs 7551-7561 V74#3

I cast my vote to add the new mailing list.

It will make it alot easier for me to handle the daily digest
by making the DD smaller & that will actually allow me to post
more often.

Phil Pugliese

ppugliese@pimacc.pima.edu


------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Wed, 18 May 94 22:00:03 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #604: Msgs 7569-7579 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Wed May 18 22:00:02 EDT 1994
Reply-To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Errors-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 May 94 22:00:03 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #604: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 604  7569 14-May-1994 rancke@diku.dk   Sword Worlds << David Johnson writes:
 604  7570 14-May-1994 J Roberson       Why Tech Levels aren't uniform << >Reme
 604  7571 14-May-1994 Mark Cook        Pre-TNE mail-list << In Archive-Message
 604  7572 15-May-1994 BORIS ZAIDFELD   FGMP-16 Newsletter << Hi there,
 604  7573 15-May-1994 Craig Barnett    Re: TML nightly: Msgs 7551-7561 V74#3 <
 604  7574 15-May-1994 Jeff L. Davis    traveller new era errata? << Just bough
 604  7575 16-May-1994 langsl@cbr.hhcs  Misc. Questions <<                   I 
 604  7576 15-May-1994 Graham Spearing  FF&S Pulse Pistol << There is nothing l
 604  7577 15-May-1994 John Bucsek      Pre-TNE mail list << I'll keep this sho
 604  7578 15-May-1994 David Johnson    TML: A House Divided? << Gentlesophonts
 604  7579 16-May-1994 grue@cs.uq.oz.a  Multiple lists << hi,

------------------------------

Bundle: 604
Archive-Message-Number: 7569
From: rancke@diku.dk
Subject: Sword Worlds
Date: Sat, 14 May 1994 16:24:16 +0100 (METDST)

David Johnson writes:
>Now back to the Sword Worlds.  Hans Rancke <rancke@diku.dk> writes:
> 
>>Encountering their TL 12 fleet en route. Now what?
> 
>Well, first, remember in my scenario, Sacnoth hasn't been selling any TL 12
>goods to Gram, and since they probably can't get any from the Darrians
>or the Imperium (the Zhodani, maybe, I admit, but Sacnoth has similar access)
>so the Sacnoth Fleet only encouters a TL 11 Gram Fleet.  

It seems I haven't explained my idea about the economic cycles well enough.
Basically I postulate a series of recessions and booms. Since I postulate
that the Sword Worlds have access to TL 15 physics texts from the Imperium,
I also assume that a lower-than-15 TL is the result of economic conditions:
A TL 12 world can't support the industry needed to build the TL 13 stuff
needed to maintain the TL 14 industry needed to build the TL 14 stuff
needed to maintain TL 15 industry. Got that? So a recession could (depending
on its severity) drop the TL of a world while a boom could raise it. Thus
I assume that Gram had TL 12 a few decades ago, which is when they built a
lot of their current fleet. (Remember, I also assume that a world can 
maintain ships and equipment at least two levels above their own TL). So
they have the ships and they can, if necessary, maintain it on their own. 
Furthermore, my thesis is that if Sacnoth wasn't selling TL 12 stuff at
competetive prices them Gram would build it on its own  -  the reason why
they aren't doing it now being that Sacnoth is selling it cheaper than they
could build it themselves. You see? It all hangs together. The situation
you postulate  -  that Sacnoth has a TL 12 fleet and Gram hasn't  -  is not
possibe under my assumptions.

>(I believe this was
>the case in the 5FW.  Forces from different worlds - Gram and Joyeuse -
>reflected the TL of the specific world.  Anyone have easy access to those
>*Fifth Frontier War* counters who can check for sure?)

I hadn't thought about that. Yes, I think you're right. I'll check. That
would certainly knock my theory over the head. Except that I just might
claim that FFW had made a mistake ;-) Ah, how difficult it is to abandon
a well-loved theory...

>Before I go further, let me say that I've taken to heart Hans's (and Phil's)
>comments that I should focus on the `facts at hand'.  

And if the Gram ships in FFW really are TL 11 (which I think they are) then
that comment is going to return and hit me in the face like a boomerang! ;-)

>I'm really trying to
>come to an understanding of the situation based upon the facts rather than
>my own view of `how it ought to be'.  I just see many inconsistencies in
>what few facts we have at hand.

Well, I'll continue my argument as if FFW didn't exist. For the moment,
anyway. Until I get a chance to think about it a bit. 

>>And the next thing you know Sacnoth is being visited by the combined fleets
>>of the rest of the Sword Worlds who are anxious to ensure that you won't
>>visit their world next.
> 
>Well, maybe, except that if Sacnoth does it's `front work' some of the
>other Sword Worlds will be allied or at least tolerant of it's actions.  If
>it hits the `leader' of the opposition first the remaining worlds will be
>less likely to jump up for their own `chance in the barrel'.

Now you're postulating historical facts to support your view. This is no
more (and no less) valid than me postulating that Gram is the one that has
done its political homework and has the backing of the other Sword Worlds.
Either is equally possible in theory. But one of them has things turn out
the way GDW says they did and the other one dosen't. IMO one should prefer
the one that corresponds most closely to GDWs version.

Now, if you could demonstrate that Sacnoth couldn't possibly loose a
confrontation with all the other Sword Worlds then you'd have something
much more solid.

>>Perhaps this gave
>>them an Us-and-Them mentality that prevails to this day.
> 
>Are those refugees *Piper's* `original Sword Worlders' or GDW's?  :-)

Actually, while I've no doubt that GDW's Sword Worlds owe their origin to
Piper, they actualy have a lot less in common with Piper's than one might
think. 

>I believe the original GDW Sword Worlders were merely fleeing the
>Interstellar Wars rather than their own specific defeat.

I believe, however, that the GDW SW ancestors did, like Piper's SW ancestors,
flee a lost civil war.
 
>I admit, if these `cycles' exist it explains a lot, but I just don't see
>what causes them, nor understand why the same thing hasn't happened in the
>Imperium or the Darrian Confederation.

Remember that my theory ties TLs tightly to the economy. I know it hasn't
worked that way on Earth today, but it's the only explanation that I can
see why nearly all worlds aren't TL 15. So relegate the TLs to the back-
ground for a moment and think about the world economies today. We've got
economic boom/recession cycles. Why shouldn't the Sword Worlds? As to why
it dosen't happen in the Imperium and the Darrian Confederation:

	1) Maybe it does. Why is only 4 Imperial worlds in the Spinward
	   Marches TL 15?

	2) Maybe they have a better control of the economy than the 
	   Sword Worlds. The Imperium, at least, has enough size to
	   dampen local problems.

>Okay, but I don't believe this situation is analogous in terms of the TL
>disparities (I'll get to that in a bit).  In a `Latin' scenario with no US
>I see several different blocs centered about the `stronger' nations like
>Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, and Colombia (which will see much more stability
>when the US drug market disappears).  This is quite similar to Sword
>Worlds history.  If one world rises to dominance (possibly with Zhodani
>aid) I suspect it will stay there.  

So far no problem. This is just what the Sword world history says happened.

>In a feudal technocracy, it ought to be the highest tech world.

So this seems to be the assumption that dosen't fit. Examine it. Change it
to fit. Specifically the part of the assumption that has the individual
Sword Worlds tied together in an 'emperor-level' feudal technocracy. Try
to imagine the tecnocracies stopping at the planetary level.
 
>BTW, if Gram does maintain its position with Zhodani aid *and* the Sword
>Worlders have this `us vs. them' mentality it seems much more likely to
>me that a combined fleet is going to show up at Gram, especially in light
>of the anti-Zhodani sentiment in the Confederation.

How deep is that anti-Zhodani sentiment? You assume they think of Zhodani
as a 50ties redneck thought of russians. Perhaps it's a 20th Century
Yankee/Southerner dislike.

>>How significant is an advantage of 12 over 11 and 10?
>>a TL 12 fleet is twice as efficient, ton for ton, as a TL 11 and
>>six times as efficient as TL 10.
> 
>Another measure would be the TL mods used in *5FW*.  I don't remember the
>details (and my copy is 250 mi. away in Fort Worth) but I seem to
>remember just a few battalions of TL 15 Imperial troops being able to
>hold off several TL 10-11 corps of Sword Worlders.  

Well, Steve's figures was about ships and not troops, but even so, there's
a ot of difference between a 12-11 disparity and a 15-10. In fact, Steve
claims that a TL 15 fleet has a 500-1 advantage over a TL 11 fleet and can
defeat any number of foes of lower TLs.


> Sword Worlds Subsector Data c1120 (from *MTJ* #3)
> Tizon (+6)      0922 B386887-A M   Ri                   323 Sw  K2VI M3D
> Narsil (+6)     0927 B574A55-A M   Hi In                224 Sw  M0II M6D
> Anduril (+7)    1026 B985855-B M   Ri                   222 Sw  F2V
> Gram (+8)       1223 A895957-B M   Hi In Cp             603 Sw  F2D M2D
> Sacnoth (+7)    1325 B775956-C M   Hi In                301 Sw* F9V M8D
> Sting (+5)      1525 B645896-A M                        302 Sw* M0V
> 
>These are all the pop 8+ Sword Worlds.  Gram, at twice the population
>of Sacnoth, ought to be able to fight the higher tech Sacnoth to a standstill.
>Anduril, at one-tenth the population of Sacnoth, could choose the `winner'
>in such a conflict.  

If, that is, wars were decided by mathematical formulae. Let's not get that
simplistic. Lots of instances in history where the apparently certain loser
didn't. I would have been satisfied if Gram wasn't too far behind. That
they are equal given a TL 11 fleet and clearly superior given a TL 12 fleet
just helps. 

Narsil, at a ten-to-one advantage over Sacnoth, suffers
>a twelve-to-one technological disadvantage.  Seems a Sacnoth-Anduril alliance
>should be able to topple those `Zho-puppets' on Gram.  Since Gram is the
>capital that suggests a Gram-Anduril alliance (or Zhodani aid).

Gram certainly needs allies given that the Zhodani help is covert enough to
be just a rumour. Perhaps Gram buys Zhodani ships at a discount. No feudal
technocrat could be very upset at a peer taking advantage of a good deal,
surely?

>>   -  even if the other worlds don't buy TL 12 ships elsewhere.
> 
>Where?  I doubt the Imperium or the Darrians would sell to the Sword Worlds.
>The Zhodani, maybe, but what advantage do *they* have in fostering instability
>in the Confederation?  A stable Sword Worlds on the border of the Imperium
>would have been in the interest of the Zhodani!

Perhaps the anti-Zhodani sentiment was strong on Sacnoth but weak on Gram
300 years ago. Nowadays they _do_ have a politically stable Confederation.
Gram has been in charge for three centuries.

>I'm wasn't thinking sabotage - I was thinking war-time embargo.  Tough to
>wage a military campaign if you're buying your ammo-vehicles-medkits-
>transport ships-*et al* from your adversary.

How long does it take to go on a war-time production scedule? Always
remember that Gram knows perfectly well how to make these things. They
just can't make them as cheaply. That's the central point of my theory:
THE MOMENT SACNOTH STOPS SELLING TL 12 STUFF SOME OTHER SWORD WORLD
STARTS MAKING AND SELLING IT.

>>But perhaps he buys them from the
>>Imperium instead. After all, they are propably playing the US to the Sword
>>Worlds' Latin America.
> 
>I doubt it.  At the risk of beating a dead horse, if allied Mexican-
>Brazilian-Argentine troops had recently occupied San Diego and San Antonio
>you can bet there would be *a lot* of support in the US for much more than
>just `fostering instability' in Latin America.  

What time in history are you talking about? Just after the 3rd FW where
the Imperium occupied 12 of the Sword Worlds? Or after the 5th where they
set up a puppet government of half the Confederation? The Imperium _did_
a lot more just after these incursions. They just didn't keep it up for
centuries  -  which I consider perfectly politically plausible. After
the heat dies down a later government relaxes the more stringent measures.

>>I don't see how that follows at all. The only times the Sword Worlds
>>invade the Imperium is with promise of Zhodani help. You can't make
>>many assumptions based on how people behave when they think they have
>>a powerful ally.
> 
>I'm not sure I understand your point.  Regardless of why the Sword Worlds
>have attacked the Imperium there are clearly reasons why the Imperium
>hasn't `dealt' with the Sword Worlds long ago.  

But they did. The occupied half of them after the 3rd FW. Later they decided
that keeping up the occupation wasn't worth the bother. The 4th FW was
settled by negotiation, not Imperial conquest, so they didn't get a chance
there. After the 5th FW they cut them in half and tried with a puppet
government.

>I doubt the Zhodani would
>have gone to war over an Imperial invasion of the Sword Worlds 

1) Why?
2) What if the Imperium wasn't as sure as you are?

>so there
>must be some reason the Sword Worlds themselves were able to deter such
>action.

Remember, on paper the Zodani _ought_ to have been able to kick the Imperial
ass. Nowadays we know that the reason why they didn't commit enough forces
to do this was that they didn't want to take over Deneb. They've been 
static for 2 millenia (I have a private theory that they have some massive
internal troubles, but that's by the way). In essense, the Zhodani have
been playing a very cynical game with their Vargr and Sword World allies,
using them as cannon fodder. They never intended to win those wars (this,
much more than their thought police/doctors makes the Zhodani bastards
in my books). But neither the Imperium nor the Sword Worlds knew that. The
Imperium were frightened enough of the Zhodani potential to refrain from
taking drastic advantage of any of their victories; the Sword Worlds were
impressed enough to get suckered into yet another Outworld Coalition.

>>On the contrary, if the Imperium has been doing that it explains why the
>>Sword Worlds are PO'd enough to keep on joining an alliance that has struck 
>>out again and again.
> 
>Again, this seems contradictory to me.  Any Imperial meddling in the Sword
>Worlds has caused the *opposite* result  -  Sword Worlds incursions  - 

The Sword World incursions were a result of the Zhodani alliance, and had
nothing to do with their strength relative to the Imperium.

>so
>why hasn't the Imperium sent ". . . the [Imperial] Marines to that little
>[subsector spinward of Glisten] and *stopped* that problem!"?

They have. They just took them home again after a while.

>Okay, this seems the only reasonable solution.  The Zhodani are supporting
>Gram in its leadership of the Confederation.  Through this support, and
>*despite* the generally anti-Zhodani sentiments in the Sword Worlds, 

How general are those sentiments? Or rather, how violent? Is it a general
'kill-the-zhos' hate (your choice?), a somewhat widespread 'all psionics/
zhos needs bashing' resentment (my own choice), or an occasional 'zhos 
stink' dislike? 

>Gram
>is able to maintain its leadership in spite of the greater technological
>accomlishments of Sacnoth.  

Not technological accomplishment (What's the accomplishment in buying an
Imperial physics textbook?). Temporary economic advantage. 

>In addition to it's support of Gram, the
>Consulate has made it clear to the Imperium that it will not tolerate
>direct action against the Confederation.

Quite possible.

>In a sense, the Sword Worlds have been nothing more than a Zhodani client
>state.

In a sense, yes.

>To continue to tromp on my Latin
>American analogy, it's as if the Soviets had supported a Cuban-Mexican-
>Brazilian-Argentine-*et al* confederation that overran Florida, Texas,
>and California every few decades (and Lanth and Glisten are more like
>Yuma, Del Rio, and Key West).  It's shaky, but I can understand it.

Make that overran every two centuries and you're nearer the mark. This is
actually quite important. If the Sword Worlds really bothered the Imperium
every other decade then I agree with you that the Imperium would do
something about them. But they don't. And, disregarding the 4th FW, the
Imperium has taken quite decisive action whenever the Sword Worlds have 
ovestepped the line. 

>Maybe the `anti-Zhodani sentiment' in the Sword Worlds was just Imperial
>propaganda?  (More likely, it was another poorly-considered `rationali-
>zation' by the original developers used to explain why psionics weren't
>rampant in the non-Imperial Sword Worlds.)

Very propably. Or perhaps it's a "Real Men don't need psionics!" thing.

>Given this, one would expect some major changes in this relationship now
>that the Virus has severed Deneb's connection with the Imperium and there
>has been some *rapproachement* with the Zhodani.  The Zhodani no longer
>get as much value from supporting Gram.  Scanoth rises triumphant!?!  :-)

Depends on the economic developements.

>>There's no reason why a king should welcome a feudal pattern just because
>>their own power is based on it. And, in fact, we KNOW they don't. If they
>>did the Sword Worlds would be an empire instead of a confederation.
> 
>Well, I guess I still haven't explained my view of what a feudal technocracy
>is.  The Sword Worlds leaders may be called `kings' but they're more like
>`CEOs'  -  they are at the top of a huge, conglomerate, capitalist, economic
>power structure.  They don't have an `empire' just like the `barons' of
>the Japanese `keiritsu' don't.  They have a cooperative arrangement  -  a
>Confederation.

OK. So you think the Confederation is one huge Feudal Technocracy, right?
I think it is a confederation of (mostly) feudal technocracies. On what
do you base your assumption that it must be the one and can't be the other?
(Note that my argument is that if both are possible then we should choose
the assumption that fits the facts best. Only if one is inevetable or the
other impossible should we choose in despite of the known facts). I won't
dispute that if you have a lot of feudal technocracies on the planetary 
then a further feudal level is a distinct possibility. All I'm saying is
that it's not inevetable, that a planetary king could just as well think
of himself as a real king and treat the other kings as such.  



      Hans Rancke
University of Copenhagen
     rancke@diku.dk
- ------------
        "A  subsector  official  pompously states that the
        subsector  armed  forces  have  four Kinunir class
        ships in service,  each with enough troop strength
        to put down any military operations that threathen
        the peace of the Imperium."

                        ---Adventure 1, The Kinunir

------------------------------

Bundle: 604
Archive-Message-Number: 7570
Date: Sat, 14 May 1994 09:51:15 -0600
From: RJR96326@vax1.utulsa.edu (J Roberson)
Subject: Why Tech Levels aren't uniform

>Remember that my theory ties TLs tightly to the economy. I know it hasn't
>worked that way on Earth today, but it's the only explanation that I can
>see why nearly all worlds aren't TL 15.

When I first scoured Megatraveller, I thought I saw something to the effect
that, as you postulate, economics and infrastructure are what limit TLs.
TL10 traders sell TL10 computers to a TL8 world. Even if they have the
manuals and maintenace books, all the buyers are going to have to rely on
TL10 servicing, which would require TL10 computter training, probably from
imported engineers or natives who study abroad, etc. Essentially, they
can't just read the books - they need to be at least capable of
manufacturing the tech themselves and support it as well.

I would postulate that trade with more advanced planets may let you reach
higher TLs more quickly, but not immediately.

As for Earth, I think the differences between the Core and the Spinward
Marches (Regency) would be more akin to the difference between New York and
San Francisco & surrounding regions, circa 1890. S.F. was a pretty advanced
city for its time, but it in no way rivaled New York. It was still a
frontier, where they were still building the infrastructure that New York
alrady had.

You can't run before you can walk. Even if someone shows you how and holds
your hand, you still have to get there on your own.


_________________________________
Eugenics: Chlorination of the Gene Pool.
Consistency is a Flaw.
J Roberson      RJR96326@vax1.utulsa.edu        Priss@io.com





------------------------------

Bundle: 604
Archive-Message-Number: 7571
From: Mark Cook <markc@CSOS.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Pre-TNE mail-list
Date: Sat, 14 May 1994 20:46:43 -0700 (PDT)

In Archive-Message-Number 7563, rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger) writes:

> The Pros:
> - ---------
> You might placate some of the people who ditched due to TNE, and some of 
> them might come back to participate.

Right, except that 'some' and 'some' should read 'a lot' and 'a lot'.

> The Cons:
> - ---------
> More administrative work for James -- keeping two lists, etc.

Since James suggested this to us in the first place, that's probably
not an issue for him, or (if it is), he believes the ROI is worth it.

> Possible reduction of the critical mass that has been achieved on TML.

Unlikely, since those that enjoy TNE will either remain with the original
group, or join both groups and post as is appropriate.

> Creates a little more hassle for those who like partaking in discussions
> and swapping in all eras.

Join both groups.  If the hassle is too much, maybe your enthusiasm isn't
enough.

> You can already discuss anything relating to Traveller on the TML, from any
> era --

True, but many of us feel that mixing TNE with earlier traveller is like
mixing _Ren_&_Stimpy_ with _Masterpiece_Theatre_.  In our eyes, the two are
mutually exclusive.

>        to diminish its subject matter for the aesthetic concerns of a 
> handful seems ludicrous.

Careful when you use the word handful.  I'm not sure how long you've been
with the TML, but I'm going on 6 (or so) years, and the number of voices
I've seen disappear due to TNE is appalling.  I'd hardly call it a 'handful'.
Also, how many of the current subscribers are active contributors?  Maybe
there's a reason.

> The participation level of those who ditched wasn't that high anyways.

BZZZZZT!!  Nice try.  Thanks for playing.

Ask James about the old TML metrics.  At one point (several years ago),
I was one of the 3 highest-volumn posters (# of lines and frequency) on
the entire TML.  Metlay (God bless him), was also in that group, and he
fall dropped the TML altogether, rather than have to endure TNE.  Nick
Sylvain was also a high volumn contributor, and the only thing I've seen
from him recently was his announcement of impending departure, also because
of TNE.

> If TML is not regulated/restricted from CT/MT posts, TML'ers will go
> right on posting such, to the loss of those who subscribe to the subject-
> limited list exclusively.

That's not really the point.  We (the anti-TNE folks) want to not have to
wade through the low signal-to-noise ratio that TNE presents in the TML.
It a separate group, it ceases to be a problem for us, and those of you
that enjoy TNE (and creamed spinich and enemas and so on...) can stay
right here and do exactly what you've been doing all along.

> Seems like a rather lopsided issue to me.

Seems like a pretty selfish one to me.  You'd rather keep us around, even
when we don't want to be here, rather than lose part of your audience?
This may cause many folks that dropped out to come back.  The flip side
is many are leaving anyway, they just don't have anywhere else to go.
The separate mailing list would resolve that.

> I prefer the general Traveller theme.  It's much simpler -- you read the
> messages you want to read.  You keep the messages you want to keep.

 ... and plow through a ton of TNE garbage to get to them.  No thanks.

> Plus, I love bigger crowds -- 500 is a pretty big crowd!

If crowds is your scene, try commuting in Manhatten.

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting * shoestring graphics & printing
2055 sw whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@csos.orst.edu
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
"When your enemy falls, don't rejoice -- but don't pick him up either."
                                             - Yiddish proverb

------------------------------

Bundle: 604
Archive-Message-Number: 7572
Date: 	Sun, 15 May 1994 08:54:53 -0400
From: BORIS ZAIDFELD <cs911408@red.ariel.cs.yorku.ca>
Subject: FGMP-16 Newsletter

Hi there,

	Does anyone has any information about FGMP-16 Newsletter?  I saw
an ad for it in Challenge 72, and i was wondering if anyone sub. to it and
any other information.

	Thanks,

		-Shalom Zaidfeld
PS.

I vote No for the New list suggested.  Let's remain united with TML.




------------------------------

Bundle: 604
Archive-Message-Number: 7573
Subject: Re: TML nightly: Msgs 7551-7561 V74#3
From: craig@rlyeh.hna.com.au (Craig Barnett)
Date: Sun, 15 May 94 09:28:55 GMT

I have a quick question that has been on my mind for months (ever since
reading Survival Margin).

Exactly _what_ is Project Longbow, and what is the significance of the
date 70 years after the received message in SM?  Has any further information
been made available yet, or do we have to wait (as we do for the Regency
sourcebook, which IMHO should have been the first sourcebook released for
TNE, but that's another story)?


- --
Craig Barnett
craig@rlyeh.hna.com.au        barney@scorch.hna.com.au
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
PGP Public key available by request

------------------------------

Bundle: 604
Archive-Message-Number: 7574
Date: Sun, 15 May 1994 20:13:49 -0400
From: eo356@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeff L. Davis)
Subject: traveller new era errata?
Reply-To: eo356@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jeff L. Davis)

Just bought Traveller: NE . I have not played Traveller since the first
small black books. Why did GDW go the way of this "new era" ? What was
wrong with MegaTraveller that they tried to "fix" with New Era?
 Are there any New Era errata files out there?


- --
                  Jeff L. Davis
                  eo356@cleveland.freenet.edu

------------------------------

Bundle: 604
Archive-Message-Number: 7575
Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 12:17:19 +1000
From: langsl@cbr.hhcs.gov.au
Subject: Misc. Questions


                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M

                                      Date:  Sent on: 16-May-1994 12:18pm
                                      From:  Alistair Langsford
                                             LANGSFORD ALISTAIR
                                      Dept:  Information Services
                                      Tel No:289 7870

TO:  Remote Addressee                     ( _traveller@engrg.uwo.ca )


Subject: Misc. Questions

All I need is the air that I breathe...
- ---------------------------------------

One of the hazards of space travel is going to be running out of breathable 
    air. When considering a particular 'scene' for a scenario I was 
    planning, I realised I had no good idea of how long it takes a person 
    to use up the available air in a sealed room. So, some questions for 
    the list.

Imagine you are in a sealed room. How long does it take a person to die 
    because the air gets bad - and why? Is it lack of Oxygen, or the 
    presence of impurities?

If the room is filled not with air, but with Oxygen only:
- -   what atmospheric pressure should it be at to be safe? I believe that if 
    the pressure is too high the atmosphere promotes any sort of minor 
    spark into a serious fire/explosive hazard.

- -   how long before a typical human unfortunate dies from bad air in this 
    scenario.

Some questions on firearms...
- -------------------------------

 ..   At what tech level can you build guns out of non metallic materials?

 ..   What sort of non metallic materials are possible - plastics, carbon 
    fibre, or what? 

 ..   At what tech level can you build caseless ammo and weapons to use it? 
    And when does the result become as practical as weapons using cased 
    ammo?

Note:
    I'm interested in both real world comments as well as comments based on 
    whatever is covered in (CT/MT/TNE) Traveller rules. 

Alistair,
langsl@cbr.hhcs.gov.au


------------------------------

Bundle: 604
Archive-Message-Number: 7576
From: Graham.Spearing@gspear.mettav.royle.org (Graham Spearing)
Reply-To: Graham.Spearing@gspear.mettav.royle.org
Date: 15 May 94  21:19:12
Subject: FF&S Pulse Pistol

There is nothing like running a game of Traveller to make you actually look at
the rules and design information to see if it works.

I have an 'act first think later', hot shot pilot player character, Cal Morgan,
who wants a high tech pistol with some kick. I gave him a Gauss pistol. On
reflection I thought I would try to design a heavy TL 11 pistol utilising
electro-chemical propulsion; I picked up FF&S and had a go. This produced some
interesting results, and a weapon much more to Cal's tastes. Below are all the
workings for the weapon with design notes, followed by an observation on the
Gauss pistol stats in the upgrade booklet:


TL 11 ECT Magnum 'Pulse Pistol'
(It's not a blaster, but it's the next best thing . . .)

Ammunition Design

Caliber                     10.0 mm
Cartridge Case Length       23.0 mm
Bullet Length               33.0 mm
Bullet Weight               14 grams
Average Muzzle Energy       1879 joules
Bullet Price    Slug        0.28 Cr
                HE          0.56 Cr
                DS          0.56 Cr
                HEAP        0.84 Cr

Weapon Design

Average Barrel Length       10 cm
Actual Barrel Length        11 cm
Barrel Type                 Light
Barrel Weight               0.22 kg
Barrel Cost                 44 Cr

Actual Muzzle Energy        1972 joules
Damage          Slug        3
                HE          5
                DS          3
                HEAP        5

Penetration     Slug        1-Nil
                HE          Nil
                DS          1-2-Nil
                HEAP        2-2-2

Receiver                    Light Self Loading
Rate of Fire                SA - Semi Automatic
Receiver        Length      17 cm
                Weight      1.2395 kg
                Price       447.9 Cr
Stock                       Hollow Pistol Grip
                Length      0 cm
                Weight      0.1 kg
                Price       25 Cr

Weapon Range                32 m
Grip Magazine Capacity      10
Magazine Weight             0.2476 Kg
Magazine Price              52 Cr

Recoil Reduction            Electrothermal Action



Component       Length          Weight      Price (Cr)
- ---------------------------------------------------------

Barrel          11              0.22        44
Receiver        17              1.2395      447.9
Grip                            0.1         25
Magazine                        0.2476      52

Weapon Empty    28 cm           1.8071 kg   568.9 Cr
10 rounds 10x33mm               0.14        2.8 Cr

Weapon Loaded   28 cm           1.9471 kg   571.7 Cr

Bulk        2
Recoil      3

Summary Combat Stats

TL 11 Heavy Pulse Pistol
                                                          Recoil
Weapon                      Rof Dam     Pen      Blk Mag SS  Brst Rng

10mm Pulse Pistol - Slug    SA  3       1-Nil    2   10   3   -   32
10mm Pulse Pistol - DS      SA  3       1-2-Nil  2   10   3   -   38
10mm Pulse Pistol - HE      SA  5       Nil      2   10   3   -   24
10mm Pulse Pistol - HEAP    SA  5       2-2-2    2   10   3   -   24


Design Notes

My first stab at designing using FF&S. A very user friendly product, and soon
got results. If you spot any bad errors let me know.

The major difficulty with this design was keeping the weight down! With such a
high muzzle energy the receiver came in at a hefty 1.2 kg. I fiddled with the
muzzle energy to get it out at under 2001 to preserve the 1-Nil penetration.

Why do weapons with muzzle energy of 2001 to 3000 drop penetration back to
2-Nil????????

The ECT weapon system had battery weight costs for the magazine, but took away
the recoil due to it's firing mechanism.

I found the barrel length and casing length vital to the design, as this
determined the muzzle energy, and thus the receiver characteristics. I rifled
the barrel. Is this ok on a pistol? (I am afraid I don't know anything about
real guns).

The weapon is a heavy sidearm, known as a 'Pulse Pistol' as ECT weapons use an
intense pulse of electrical energy to ignite the working fluid in the round to
a plasma state. ACRs in my campaign are called Pulse Rifles. . .

Having put together my design I looked back at the Gauss pistol in the upgrade
booklet to see how it compared. I just couldn't believe how poor the stats
were. TL 13 weapon with a SS recoil of 5? It can fire bursts, but with a recoil
of 11? A short range of 11 meters?

I applied a quick assumption that the pistol had a Muzzle Velocity of 1500
(FF&S p.102). Without designing the whole system, and using the knowns found in
the upgrade booklet, I reckon the stats for the weapon should look more like
below:

TL 13 Gauss Pistol
                                                 Recoil
Weapon                  Rof Dam  Pen    Blk Mag SS  Brst Rng

4mm Gauss Pistol - Dart  5   2   Nil    1   35   2   6   19
4mm Gauss Pistol - HEAP  5   3   2-2-2  1   35   2   6   14
4mm Gauss Pistol - tranq 5   -1  Nil    1   35   2   5   11

I struggle to get the stats found in the upgrade booklet. Any thoughts anyone?

I am now into session 2 of refereeing DGP's 'Flaming Eye' campaign, using the
wholly superior TNE rule set. I believe the Imperium to be a superior
background, and TNE to be a better set of rules. Right now I have the best of
both worlds.

Happy Travelling

Graham Spearing

Internet:    Graham.Spearing@gspear.mettav.royle.org


------------------------------

Bundle: 604
Archive-Message-Number: 7577
From: bucsek@oo.com (John Bucsek)
Subject: Pre-TNE mail list
Date: Sun, 15 May 94 22:33:03 EST


I'll keep this short, but here is my .02Cr on splitting the list.  I enjoyed
CT and never really liked MT.  I can deal with TNE.  Except for the change in
the Maneuver Drives I like the new vehicle design better.
 
I don't want to see the mailing list split.  But seeing how some people pay
for their mail by the byte I can understand not wanting to recieve mail you
don't want.  It is throwing money away to them.  For me mail is part of my
basic service at a local BBS. For $0.25 an hour I can afford extra mail.  So
rather than lose the CT posters, I must say split the list.  I can afford to
subscribe to another mailing list and I will as I'm interested in Traveller in
ALL forms.
 
The tagging of messages by prefixing them with a CT, MT, or TNE was a great
idea.  And would work if this was a newsgroup and I could use a off line
reader.  With the mailing list though, you still run into the price per byte
for some people.
 
Again, these are my views, but I believe they make sense.
 
One last comment on something someone else mentioned.  TSR supports multiple
setting for AD&D.  You're right. Why didn't GDW do the same?  And rather than
the virus, cleaning up after the Rebellion would have taken a few hundred
years anyway.
 
John Bucsek
bucsek@oo.com


------------------------------

Bundle: 604
Archive-Message-Number: 7578
Date: Sun, 15 May 94 22:00:41 CDT
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: TML: A House Divided?

Gentlesophonts:

Okay, you may remember when James initially posted the suggestion of
creating another mailing list for the anti-TNE crowd that I jumped at
the idea.  Since then I've had some second thoughts.

I'm going to get to Mark Cook's arguments for the separate list in a moment.
(Nothing personal Mark, you're just a handy proponent.)  First though, I'd
like to explain my own situation.  I'm pretty new to TML - only having 
subscribed in January of this year.  I think since then though, I've been
a pretty active contributor - for good or ill!  :-)  I started the CT/MT
vs. TNE background discussion a while back and I think most of you ought
to know that I have little use for TNE.  I don't give a hoot about rules
(I never even used the CT/MT rules for much of anything except character
and world generation) and I feel the TNE background offers *nothing* over
what could have been done with a CT/MT `frontier sourcebook'.  While I 
have just about *every* GDW and DGP product since those first `Three Little
Black Books', I have not purchased *any* TNE products and I'm seriously
considering letting my subscription to *Challenge*, which goes back to
*JTAS* #5, expire.

That said, Mark Cook <markc@CSOS.ORST.EDU> writes:

> Join both groups.  If the hassle is too much, maybe your enthusiasm isn't
> enough.

One might suggest the same about `oldtimers' who find it too much hassle to
put up with the `noise' of TNE postings.

> That's not really the point.  We (the anti-TNE folks) want to not have to
> wade through the low signal-to-noise ratio that TNE presents in the TML.

I'm not sure I buy this.  If all these folks were still contributing there
wouldn't be such a `low signal-to-noise' ratio.

> It a separate group, it ceases to be a problem for us, and those of you
> that enjoy TNE (and creamed spinich and enemas and so on...) can stay
> right here and do exactly what you've been doing all along.
> 
> > Seems like a rather lopsided issue to me.
> 
> Seems like a pretty selfish one to me.  You'd rather keep us around, even
> when we don't want to be here, rather than lose part of your audience?

Hmmm.  There seems to be plenty `selfishness' to go around here.  Look, 
I'm just as pissed as anyone at what GDW has done to Traveller and I don't
appreciate these `newbies' bitching about my `whining' all the time either
but that doesn't mean I want to pick up my toys and go play by myself.

> This may cause many folks that dropped out to come back.  The flip side
> is many are leaving anyway, they just don't have anywhere else to go.
> The separate mailing list would resolve that.

I doubt it, but I'd like to offer a challenge to allow you to prove me wrong.
Let's have all these hordes of oldtimers `walk their walk' instead of just
`talk their talk'.  Let's see what this new mailing list would look like
right her in TML.  Beginning June 1st (which should give enough time to
get the word out and to let folks transitioning from school to get settled
for the summer) let's have `Pre-TNE Days on TML' for all these oldtimers
who are just bursting with megabytes of pre-PIE-in-the-sky information to
contribute.

I would *love* the opportunity to participate in discussions about Imperial
background.  That's what I loved about HIWG (except I wasn't `on-line'
with GENIE which kept me somewhat `ghettoized').  I would *love* to develop
*other* campaign backgrounds like the Earth Colonies on TNE.  If folks were
really contributing like this I suspect all the TNE devotees would be
`dropping out' or clamoring for their `own' list.  (Sorry, newbies.)

But I don't think that will happen.  I suspect those folks who are dropping
out have a variety of other reasons besides merely the TNE `signal-to-
noise' ratio - things like other priorities in their lives now, something
that happens to all of us.  But please, go ahead and prove me wrong beginning
June 1st.

I also think there is another problem with creating a new list.  Namely, if we
start with the anti-TNE crowd, where do we stop?  I (and many others I
suspect) was never very pleased with MegaTraveller and the Rebellion.  Do
we get a pre-MT/Rebellion list next?  How about a `background only' list
so I don't have to be hassled by all those pesky, boring discussions about
laser comm frequencies and starship lavatory design?  What about an anti-
Grandfather list for those of us who disliked that whole fantasy trip?
And another list where the Sword Worlds don't have those d**ned economic
cycles of Hans's?  :-)

Now, please, Mark (and others), let's not have more argument about our
arguments about a new list.  Just take me up on my challenge and start
posting all that pre-TNE stuff to the TML.  You don't even have to wait
until June 1st - get that `signal-to-noise' ratio up *now* because every bit
of bandwidth that's wasted arguing against me instead of being pre-TNE
posts just makes my case and argues against a separate list.

". . . [A] house divided against itself, cannot stand."

                               -Abraham Lincoln

Peace,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

------------------------------

Bundle: 604
Archive-Message-Number: 7579
Date: Mon, 16 May 94 22:26:42 EST
From: grue@cs.uq.oz.au
Subject: Multiple lists

hi,

Mark Cook wrote lots of stuff about the split [which I've removed]

	I tend to agree with Mark.  I'd prefer a second list dealing
with non TNE stuff.  Even though I don't dislike TNE too much, the volume
has been a little intense recently.

Guess this means I vote for the split.



							Pauli

I never made the top 10 posters :-(, only got into the top 20 :-)



------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Wed, 18 May 94 22:00:03 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #605: Msgs 7580-7595 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Wed May 18 22:00:02 EDT 1994
Reply-To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Errors-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 May 94 22:00:03 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #605: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 605  7580 16-May-1994 c_hamilton%w036  Re: Deep Space Stations << Archive-Mess
 605  7581 16-May-1994 gerald.s.willia  Civil War? :-) << Let's not have United
 605  7582 16-May-1994 Steven M Bonnev  Project Longbow << Craig Barnett <craig
 605  7583 15-May-1994 Glenn Goffin     NPC swap << Roger Sanger's NPC swap ide
 605  7584 15-May-1994 Mike Basinger    TNE: Excel worksheet 1st ed. done << I 
 605  7585 15-May-1994 James Kundert    The CT/MT list... << In message 602/754
 605  7586 15-May-1994 David Johnson    Shall Not Perish 16 - Regency Navy << G
 605  7587 16-May-1994 James T Perkins  Re: Pre-TNE mail-list  << Thanks, Mark,
 605  7588 16-May-1994 Mark Cook        Re: Pre-TNE mail-list << > Thanks, Mark
 605  7589 16-May-1994 Roger Sanger     For Sale <<  
 605  7590 16-May-1994 Roger Sanger     CT for sale <<  
 605  7591 16-May-1994 David Johnson    Shall Not Perish 18: Regency Army << Ge
 605  7592 17-May-1994 David Hoey       Re: Misc. Questions << > All I need is 
 605  7593 16-May-1994 David Johnson    Shall Not Perish 19: SW Navy & Army << 
 605  7594 16-May-1994 Rob Dean         Re: Deep Space Stations << Chuck Hamilt
 605  7595 16-May-1994 J Roberson       Life & Death << >Imagine you are in a s

------------------------------

Bundle: 605
Archive-Message-Number: 7580
Date: Mon, 16 May 94 10:08:47 EDT
From: c_hamilton%w036_nw@MWMGATE1.mitre.org
Subject: Re: Deep Space Stations

Archive-Message-Number: 7554
From: CHiggin@aol.com

>From: bonnevil@mermaid.micro.umn.edu (Steven M Bonneville)

>>On Deep Space Stations:

>>It's possible they don't often make much economic sense.  (Maybe I'll do
>>a quick analysis sometime.)  But they might make very good military
>>sense, as a refueling depot.  All you need are the hulls for holding

>Believe me, they make enormous military sense!  Deep space stations
>(particularly mine) altered the entire strategic picture of the
>Islands War in Steve's TCS game.  The use of deep space stations would
>have changed the entire course of the Fifth Frontier War, if the Zhos
>or the Imperials had used them...

>[...] The war changes to one of fortifying and
>defending bodies of strategic interest, like home worlds and major
>colonies.  [...]  Otherwise, your
>planet better have massive orbital fortifications and/or planetary
>defenses, or it is a sitting duck for the first fleet to pop out of
>jump-space at the 100-diameter limit

>I've rationalized the use of deep space stations in the Islands, and
>lack of their use by the Imperium by deciding that it is a very
>difficult navigational task to jump to and from deep space points.
>The Island nations had a good supply of such skilled navigators
>because the Island worlds are so scattered that merchant ships and
>many military vessels *must* use multiple deep-space jumps to get
>anywhere.  Most of the Imperial worlds are close enough together that
>Imperial ships can jump from world to world, and thus the necessary
>skill to be a ship's navigator isn't as high, and deep-space jumping
>is not a standard part of basic Imperial navigator training.  I
>also venture to add that Impy merchants consider deep-space jumping
>as risky a practice as burning unrefined fuel in your jump drive, and
>discourage it.  So do their insurers.  Someone else can explain why
>the Imperial Navy and Zho Navy don't do it very often...

OK, let me propose why the Impies and Zhos don't use 'em: it's a 
*political* decision.

Suppose deep-space refueling stations are common.  Then, worlds which
are 6-12 parsecs in from the border become vulnerable to attack without
warning.  They would thus want some defensive elements stationed full-
time in their system.  This would probably at least quadruple the fleet
elements that would have to be deployed to provide "border coverage" for
all these "non-border" systems.

Can the Navy support all these requests?  I don't think this is likely.
You run the risk of being spread too thin.  So what is the enterprising
World Leader to do?  Build a big system fleet or lots of planetary
defense fortifications.

However, how are a planet's big system defense fleets and large planetary
defense batteries perceived by its Larger Political Entity (Imperium or Con-
sulate)?  I think they do not like them at all.  First I'll give some
Traveller facts and then I'll do some interpretation.

Fact 1: Planetary defense forts are not covered in Traveller literature.  The
closest thing is "planetary defense battalions" from the boardgame "Invasion:
Earth", which are not that effective.

Fact 2: System defense boats are the accepted mechanism for system defense.
But, the quantities for these seem very low.  I think a Traveller News
Service brief from the JTAS "War" issue read something like "the ten heavy
SDBs in the Regina system were sent to defend the system gas giant, which
would be the first priority of an attacking fleet."  This seems like a
very small number for a world at the edge of the Imperium.

Interpretation: The Larger Political Entity (Imperium or Consulate) does
not allow large system defense forces.  This would give too much power
to the individual worlds.  By taking responsibility for defense of the
whole LPE, the LPE Navy can be used for "showing the flag" and other semi-
coercive means of keeping the member worlds in line.  This will allow the
member worlds to exist together more peacefully, since they can't easily 
have internal military disputes.  (Also makes single-world rebellions
difficult.)

To summarize Cynthia, deep-space refueling implies the need to fortify
planetary bodies.  Given the need to enforce internal cohesion, however,
the Imperium and Consulate have decided to not allow large (autonomous)
planetary defenses.  Thus, they both did not use deep space refueling
stations during the Frontier Wars.

I would assume large planetary defenses (and fuel dumps) would be much
more prevalent in Trillion Credit Squadron games, which have much smaller
(probably single-system) political entities.

Comments are appreciated...

- -----

Chuck Hamilton                                           clh@mitre.org

"Crew or frozen watch casualties are replaced free at any naval base."

                                     - Trillion Credit Squadron, p. 35


------------------------------

Bundle: 605
Archive-Message-Number: 7581
From: gsw@aloft.att.com (gerald.s.williams)
Date: Mon, 16 May 94 08:57:35 EDT
Subject: Civil War? :-)

Let's not have United Traveller vs. CT/TNE list wars here.

As far as I see, the only issue is if enough people are
interested in an "old traveller" mailing list, especially
those that have already left because of TNE.  People who
want it all can just subscribe to both.

The only inconvenience this should cause is if a great
deal of cross-posting occurs, although given that the
past high-volume contributors have largely been quiet or
left the list, this seems unlikely.

Other than discussing valid impediments to splitting the
list, let's not argue about it or take sides.

Jerry

P.S. I would be interested in joining the new list.


------------------------------

Bundle: 605
Archive-Message-Number: 7582
Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 02:23:56 -0500
From: bonnevil@mermaid.micro.umn.edu (Steven M Bonneville)
Subject: Project Longbow


Craig Barnett <craig@rlyeh.hna.com.au> writes:

>Exactly _what_ is Project Longbow, and what is the significance of the
>date 70 years after the received message in SM?  Has any further information
>been made available yet, or do we have to wait (as we do for the Regency
>sourcebook, which IMHO should have been the first sourcebook released for
>TNE, but that's another story)?

Officially, we don't know a blessed thing except the vague allusions in
_Survival Margin_.  Much like the whole "Who are these IRIS people?"
business from Strephon.  A quick unofficial guess-work analysis:

Longbow appears to be some sort of psionic-based interstellar communications
project, possibly in the research phase since prior to the First Civil War
and First Interstellar War, which appearently has come to fruition by the
early 1100s, at least enough to cause Strephon to consider repeal of the
Psionics Suppression Acts of the early 800s.  

Someone or something named Pentecost is connected to the project.  Pentecost
was the day upon which the disciples of Jesus were "filled with the Holy
Spirit and began to speak in other tongues", and is a Jewish feast day 
celebrating the first fruits of the harvest.

Longbow was apparently being used to warn the Imperial government of some
sort of mysterious threat approaching the Imperium at superluminal speeds
and which would apparently reach the outer borders in about 1202.

Make of the tidbits what you will.  Apparently Pentecost went missing
during the Rebellion.  Strephon apparently witnessed a test from the
Depot at Lishun to Capital, but we don't know much since he was busy
waxing obscure...er, poetic.  This is one of those "increasing the aura
of mystery" things that GDW is so hot on these days.  (No implied value
judgment intended.)

  Steve Bonneville
  <bonnevil@mermaid.micro.umn.edu>


------------------------------

Bundle: 605
Archive-Message-Number: 7583
Date: Sun, 15 May 1994 23:27:46 -0700
From: Glenn Goffin <ggoffin@igc.apc.org>
Subject: NPC swap

Roger Sanger's NPC swap idea is very good, and I'll be posting some
NPCs soon.  I hope that a lot of referees participate; having other
people's ideas in a campaign helps keep it from becoming one-
dimensional.

On another subject, the discussions about the Sword Worlds and the
political economy of the Imperium are just what I was hoping to find 
here--high minded, thoughtful discourse.

Finally, I urge James not to split the mailing list.  Even though I'm
running a CT era campaign with MT rules, and have no intention of 
learning the GDW "house" system of TNE, I will still follow the
TNE discussions and look for ideas for my own campaign.

------------------------------

Bundle: 605
Archive-Message-Number: 7584
From: Mike Basinger <dbasinge@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: TNE: Excel worksheet 1st ed. done
Date: Sun, 15 May 1994 23:37:33 -0500 (EST)

I just finish version 0.1 of my Traveller:TNE spreadsheet for Excel.
This version has no math functions in it, it is only the character
sheet from the TNE book in a spreadsheet form.

I plan in the near future:
- -	random homeworld generation
- -	random stats generation
- -	calculate Hit Capacity and Derived Values
- -	whatever people suggest to me

Can someone give me instruction on how to upload it to the ftp site.

many thanks,
mike

ps: Please note the TNE: subject header in my message (Can't we all
just get along :-)

- -- 
D. Michael Basinger: 	Not speaking for Indiana University
			dbasinge@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu
			dbasinge@nations.ucs.indiana.edu (NeXT Mail)

------------------------------

Bundle: 605
Archive-Message-Number: 7585
Date: Sun, 15 May 94 22:03:56 PDT
From: James Kundert <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>
Subject: The CT/MT list...

In message 602/7546, Our Illustrious List Administrator said:

 >I am announcing my plans to create a second Traveller Mailing List.

 I admit to mixed feelings about this move, but will probably end
up subscribed to both lists.

 >We've lost a lot of creative and interesting people. This represents
 >a loss of valuable talent to the game and a loss to the TML community.

  While I agree with this statement, I can't see that creating a
seperate group for CT/MT folks will reverse the "loss to the game"
except among the TML lists.

 >This list will exist to discuss the Imperium in the Classic and
 >Rebellion period. It will focus on the black book and MegaTraveller
 >environment. It will not be a totally TNE-free zone.

  Similarly, the "base-line" TML will not be a CT/MT-free zone.  I
refuse to cater to isolationists' desires for a monopoly of information.
My Traveller posts will go to _whoever_ is interested, on either list.
  Also, given the nature of netters and gamers, the list split will
not end the superiority argument/gripe.  I refuse to point fingers at
current TMLers, but the publicity that the split will demand will
inevitably attract new members to both lists whose interest is in
"The Difference". I have yet to see a group of netters who can
completely resist that kind of salt in an old wound.  Expect flare-ups.

 >Depending on initial response, application of TNE rules to the
 >Classic and Rebellion settings may be tolerated.

  As most of the CT/MT folks are primarily hot about the setting (or,
in their words, the lack of one), I certainly _hope_ that rules
cross-overs will be "tolerated".  Why?
  One of this list's strong points used to be its vehicle posts and
discussions.  Unfortunately, the primary vehicle designers are all
among the Anti-TNE group, and most have not bothered to even _glance_
at the TNE vehicle design rules (I'm sure someone will respond and
give us a list of reasons for this, so I won't anticipate them).
  I have used every edition of the rules.  I started my Traveller
years with the purchase of the brand new JTAS #4. I consider the
current ship-building and ship-to-ship combat rules to be better
meshed and more usable than ANY previous edition. ANY. What's more,
these rules are such that they can be used with any previous edition
of the roleplaying rules with much less translation work than might
be expected. Part of the work has already been done
(see TML message 534/6615 for "Three-Pack Turrets").  I'm sure
that the rest will be discussed in detail. You have only ask, and
the TML will produce _someone_ with an answer.


James Kundert <j.kundert@genie.geis.com>
              <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>

There was a young lady named Bright,
Whose speed was much faster, much faster than Light.
She departed one day in a relative way,
And returned on the previous Night.
   --Albert & the Heart of Gold

------------------------------

Bundle: 605
Archive-Message-Number: 7586
Date: Sun, 15 May 94 22:35:05 CDT
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Shall Not Perish 16 - Regency Navy

Gentlesophonts:

Dug out my *Rebellion Sourcebook* and pulled out the following information
to start some development of the Regency Navy for our TML Regency sourcebook
*Shall Not Perish*.

First off, the *RS* states that a typical Imperial sector fleet consists
of about 1000 combat ships (battles, cruisers, carriers and escorts as
opposed to tankers, scouts and auxilliarires) which averages out to 62.5
ships per subsector.  Each subsector has a `numbered' regular fleet and
a `reserve' colonial fleet.  A numbered fleet has 2-10 squadrons and from
50-200 ships.  This suggests that the `1000 ships' number must only refer
to numbered fleets since an average of 62.5 ship per subsector would mean
only 31 ships each for the numbered and reserve fleets.  This is consistent
with other comments that the sector fleet is composed of the numbered 
subsector fleets but conflicts with statements that include the reserve 
fleet as part of the sector fleet.  Nevertheless, I'll deal with only
the numbered fleet ships here.

So here's a break down of the Regency Navy based upon the information in
the *RS* (all numbers are approximate):

Spinward Marches Fleet (11 fleets, 687 ships):
212th Fleet (Jewell)              213th Fleet (Regina)
214th Fleet (Aramis)              193rd Fleet (Vilis)
18th Fleet (Lanth)                23rd Fleet (Rhylanor)
43rd Fleet (Lunion)               73rd Fleet (Mora)
208th Fleet (Five Sisters)        100th Fleet (Glisten)
207th Fleet (Trin's Veil)

Deneb Fleet (16 fleets, 1000 ships):
194th Fleet (Pretoria)            212th Fleet (Lamas) [same # as Jewell?]
151st Fleet (Antra)               61st Fleet (Million)
195th Fleet (Sabine)              257th Fleet (Inar)
125th Fleet (Dunmag)              88th Fleet (Atsah)
196th Fleet (Star Lane)           258th Fleet (Vincennes)
154th Fleet (Usani)               183rd Fleet (Geniishir)*
193rd Fleet (Gulf)                260th Fleet (Zeng)
55th Fleet (Kamlar)*              184th Fleet (Vast Heavens)*
*probably reduced strength due to smaller patrol area

Trojan Reach Fleet (4 fleets, 250 ships):
201st Fleet (Pax Rulin)*          202nd Fleet (Gazulin)
203rd Fleet (Sindal)*             204th Fleet (Tobia)
*probably reduced strength due to smaller patrol area

Reft Fleet (3 fleets, 188 ships)
19th Fleet (Vestus)               74th Fleet (Macon)*
128th Fleet (Usher)*
*probably reduced strength due to smaller patrol area

Total Regency Navy (c1120): 34 fleets, 2125 ships

Several fleets have been `displaced' as a result of the Viral and *ihatei*
assaults: 151st Fleet, 61st Fleet, 125th Fleet, 88th Fleet, 55th Fleet,
184th Fleet, 203rd Fleet and 204th Fleet.

These assets might have been transferred to the Quarantine Service.

There's lot's of development work to do here: squadron composition of each
of these 34 fleets, squadron and fleet commanders, deployment and force
compositions, etc.

Jump in and have a bite!

Happy Travelling,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

------------------------------

Bundle: 605
Archive-Message-Number: 7587
Subject: Re: Pre-TNE mail-list 
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Administrator)
Date: Mon, 16 May 94 10:34:23 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@sp-eug.com>


Thanks, Mark, for taking the pre-TNE position and expressing it more
eloquently than I have.

The level of contribution today is similar to what the old TML enjoyed,
but the contributor's names and the topics are quite different. The old
TMLers are now no longer listening, and pre-TNE era support, which these
people would love to do, founders due to lack of a forum in which to
discuss it.

The sheer volume of the postings is what turn off several many listeners
- -- even casual listeners frequently drop the TML because they cannot
drink from the fire hose.

The subject line (and enforcement) idea has given me an idea. Currently
TMLers can select three frequencies: nightly, twice-weekly, and archive
bundle. Maybe a better approach is for TML to join the information age
and allow subscribers to select digests automatically cutomized to their
interests, filtering the traffic for them, based on article subject
lines. These digests would allow each subscriber to adjust the traffic
level as well as topical interest.

Users could subscribe to any or all of the following subject interest
areas (notice that existing topical interest lists like CAT could easily
be grafted on as topical subject areas of TML):

	CAT		- Computer-Aided Traveller
	Classic		- Black Book/Traveller Book Ruleset
	MT		- MegaTraveller Ruleset
	TNE		- TNE Ruleset
	Imperium	- Third Imperium Era
	Rebellion	- Rebellion Era
	Regency?	- Regency Era
	Admin		- List Administrivia
	Announce	- New product, list, pbem announcements, etc.
	Miscellaneous	- Stuff that doesn't fit the above

What it would take from me is a serious dedication of time to develop
the filterers and list management. I'd also need to add a robo-admin to
allow people to automatically maintain their list of topical items, and
develop instructions clear enough that even net-newbies can deal with
them.

Sounds like a lot of work, more than I may be willing to chew off.
Still, it's interesting. I'll let you know if there's any chance this is
doable.

In the mean time, it would probably be wise for me to set up the simple,
pre-TNE mailing list to stop the exodus today before the Third Imperium
dies in the hearts of its fans.

James

__   __/         /   /	    Internet Traveller Mailing List, Administrator
    /     /  /  /   /	   James T. Perkins in Eugene, Oregon, USA
 __/   __/__/__/ _____/   traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca

------------------------------

Bundle: 605
Archive-Message-Number: 7588
From: Mark Cook <markc@CSOS.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: Pre-TNE mail-list
Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 11:37:21 -0700 (PDT)

> Thanks, Mark, for taking the pre-TNE position and expressing it more
> eloquently than I have.

Thanks.  I appear, however, to have ruffled some feathers in the
TNE camp.  Sigh.

> The sheer volume of the postings is what turn off several many listeners
> -- even casual listeners frequently drop the TML because they cannot
> drink from the fire hose.

Well put, and dead on target, IMHO.

> Users could subscribe to any or all of the following subject interest
> areas (notice that existing topical interest lists like CAT could easily
> be grafted on as topical subject areas of TML):
> 
> 	CAT		- Computer-Aided Traveller
> 	Classic		- Black Book/Traveller Book Ruleset
> 	MT		- MegaTraveller Ruleset
> 	TNE		- TNE Ruleset
> 	Imperium	- Third Imperium Era
> 	Rebellion	- Rebellion Era
> 	Regency?	- Regency Era
> 	Admin		- List Administrivia
> 	Announce	- New product, list, pbem announcements, etc.
> 	Miscellaneous	- Stuff that doesn't fit the above
> 
> What it would take from me is a serious dedication of time to develop
> the filterers and list management...
> 
> Sounds like a lot of work, more than I may be willing to chew off.
> Still, it's interesting. I'll let you know if there's any chance this is
> doable.

I'd be willing to investigate mechanisms to help implement this
scheme (which I like a *lot*) when I get back from Central America,
if you're interested in any help.

> In the mean time, it would probably be wise for me to set up the simple,
> pre-TNE mailing list to stop the exodus today before the Third Imperium
> dies in the hearts of its fans.

Yes, please.  If introduced as a transitional tool (of indeterminate
duration), we can placate the anti-TNE camp (which I sit firmly in),
and then work on a more elegant solution (such as you propose above)
at our leisure.

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting * shoestring graphics & printing
2055 sw whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@csos.orst.edu
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
"When your enemy falls, don't rejoice -- but don't pick him up either."
                                             - Yiddish proverb

------------------------------

Bundle: 605
Archive-Message-Number: 7589
Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 11:57:48 -0700
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: For Sale

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
                           FOR SALE
 
    ==== Flaming Eye Campaign Sourcebook     Digest Group Publications
 
Rodge.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

------------------------------

Bundle: 605
Archive-Message-Number: 7590
Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 11:59:48 -0700
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: CT for sale

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
I have the following classic Traveller items for sale:
 
    ==== Book 1 -- Characters and Combat                          GDW
 
    ==== Book 2 -- Starships                                      GDW
 
    ==== Book 3 -- Worlds and Adventures                          GDW
 
    ==== Book 4 -- Mercenary                                      GDW
 
    ==== Book 5 -- High Gaurd                                     GDW
 
    ==== Book 6 -- Scouts                                         GDW
 
    ==== Supplement  1 -- 1001 Characters                         GDW
 
    ==== Supplement  2 -- Animal Encounters                       GDW
 
    ==== Supplement  3 -- The Spinward Marches                    GDW
 
    ==== Supplement  4 -- Citizens of the Imperium                GDW
 
    ==== Supplement  6 -- 76 Patrons                              GDW
 
    ==== Supplement  8 -- Library Data A-M                        GDW
 
    ==== Supplement 11 -- Library Data N-Z                        GDW
 
    ==== Adventure  1 -- The Kinunir                              GDW
 
    ==== Adventure  2 -- Research Station Gamma                   GDW
 
    ==== Adventure  3 -- Twilight's Peak                          GDW
 
    ==== Adventure  4 -- Leviathan                                GDW
 
    ==== Adventure  5 -- Trillion Credit Squadron                 GDW
 
    ==== Adventure  6 -- Expedition to Zhodane                    GDW
 
    ==== Adventure  9 -- Nomads of the World-Ocean                GDW
 
    ==== Adventure 10 -- Safari Ship                              GDW
 
    ==== Adventure 11 -- Murder on Arcturus Station               GDW
 
    ==== Double Adventure 1 -- Annic Nova / Shadows               GDW
 
    ==== Double Adventure 2 -- Mission on Mithril/Bright Face     GDW
 
    ==== Double Adventure 3 -- Death Station / The Argon Gambit   GDW
 
    ==== Double Adventure 3 -- Death Station/Argon Gambit         GDW
 
    ==== Double Adventure 4 -- Marooned / Marooned Alone          GDW
 
    ==== Double Adventure 5 -- The Chamax Plague / Horde          GDW
 
    ==== Double Adventure 6 -- Conquest / Intervention            GDW
 
    ==== Tarsus (boxed adventure)                                 GDW
 
    ==== Alien Module 1 -- Aslan                                  GDW
 
    ==== Alien Module 3 -- Vargr                                  GDW
 
    ==== Alien Module 8 -- Darrians                               GDW
 
    ==== Alien Realms                                             GDW
 
    ==== Best of the Journal 1                                    GDW
 
    ==== Best of the Journal 2                                    GDW
 
    ==== Best of the Journal 3                                    GDW
 
    ==== Best of the Journal 4                                    GDW
 
Rodge.















------------------------------

Bundle: 605
Archive-Message-Number: 7591
Date: Mon, 16 May 94 15:07:52 CDT
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Shall Not Perish 18: Regency Army

Gentlesophonts:

Okay, we've started with the Regency Navy, now let's take a look at the
Regency Army.  By `army' I mean `mobile' ground forces available for off-
world actions.

I'm using the article "Troops in the Fifth Frontier War" from *JTAS* #10
as a reference for determining troop availability.  Thanks also to Steve
Bonneville for `grepping' data on Deneb high-tech worlds in TML msg
592/7421 from May 4th.

At TL 16, only worlds with Pop 7+ will have mobile troops.  The only Regency
world that meets this criteria is Vincennes.  At Pop A, Vincennes can
support three (3) `army'-sized (combat factor 5C) units (3 x 5C-16).

For convenience let's identify these units as follows:

1st Vincennes Army (TL 16)
2nd Vincennes Army (TL 16)
3rd Vincennes Army (TL 16)

TL 15 worlds also must have pop 7+ in order to support mobile troops. In
the Regency, Magash (pop 9), Starn (pop 9), Dekha (pop A), Rhylanor (pop 9),
Mora (pop A), Glisten (pop 9), Trin (pop A in the Rebellion era - but
destroyed by the Virus in TNE) and Lintl (pop A) meet this requirement.
Dekha, Mora and Lintl will support three armies like Vincennes:

1st Dekha Army (TL 15)
2nd Dekha Army (TL 15)
3rd Dekha Army (TL 15)
1st Mora Army (TL 15)
2nd Mora Army (TL 15)
3rd Mora Army (TL 15)
1st Lintl Army (TL 15)
2nd Lintl Army (TL 15)
3rd Lintl Army (TL 15)

The pop 9 worlds can support four (4) `corps'-sized (combat factor 1C)
units (4 x 1C-15) as follows:

1st Magash Corps (TL 15)
2nd Magash Corps (TL 15)
3rd Magash Corps (TL 15)
4th Magash Corps (TL 15)
1st Starn Corps (TL 15)
2nd Starn Corps (TL 15)
3rd Starn Corps (TL 15)
4th Starn Corps (TL 15)
1st Rhylanor Corps (TL 15)
2nd Rhylanor Corps (TL 15)
3rd Rhylanor Corps (TL 15)
4th Rhylanor Corps (TL 15)
1st Glisten Corps (TL 15)
2nd Glisten Corps (TL 15)
3rd Glisten Corps (TL 15)
4th Glisten Corps (TL 15)

These 16 corps are equivalent to three `armies' (with one corps remaining).
Regency troops at lower tech levels can be developed from the UWP values
using the *JTAS* #10 article.  I'm not sure what the TL cutoff is but
regular `Imperial' troops do not go below TL 13 or so.  Can someone with
*5FW* help us out here?

This basis should provide a similar starting point for development as did
the Regency Navy post: what are the deployment, organization, commanders,
etc. of these Regency Armies?

Happy Travelling,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA


------------------------------

Bundle: 605
Archive-Message-Number: 7592
From: David Hoey <dhoey@it.ntu.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Misc. Questions
Date: Tue, 17 May 1994 11:27:37 +0930 (CST)


> All I need is the air that I breathe...
> ---------------------------------------
> 
> One of the hazards of space travel is going to be running out of breathable 
>     air. When considering a particular 'scene' for a scenario I was 
>     planning, I realised I had no good idea of how long it takes a person 
>     to use up the available air in a sealed room. So, some questions for 
>     the list.
> 
> Imagine you are in a sealed room. How long does it take a person to die 
>     because the air gets bad - and why? Is it lack of Oxygen, or the 
>     presence of impurities?
> 
> If the room is filled not with air, but with Oxygen only:
> -   what atmospheric pressure should it be at to be safe? I believe that if 
>     the pressure is too high the atmosphere promotes any sort of minor 
>     spark into a serious fire/explosive hazard.
> 
> -   how long before a typical human unfortunate dies from bad air in this 
>     scenario.


At the a high atmospheric pressure oxygen becomes toxic.  This is the reason
Scuba divers use compressed air instead of oxygen.  At normal pressure the
fire risk from an all oxygen atmosphere is very high.  

The breathable air in a room is converted to bad by a person consuming
oxygen which is replaced by carbon dioxide.  Eventually the lowering oxygen
levels will cause a person to die from oxygen starvation.  At which point
I don't know but the amount of oxygen used by a person depends upon their
activity rate.  By doing little the air in a room can be made to last longer.

Away to extend the time a person has in a sealed room is to have someway
to replace the oxygen.  If there was a bottle of compressed oxygen in the
room it could be opened occasionaly to increase the oxygen levels.  This
may have to be done carfeully if there is no gravity in the area.  If a valve
on a bottle of compressed gas is broken, the bottle can smash through brick
walls.


- -- 
**************************************************************************
*  David Hoey          * Computer Science, Northern Territory University *
*  dhoey@it.ntu.edu.au * Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia           *
**************************************************************************

------------------------------

Bundle: 605
Archive-Message-Number: 7593
Date: Mon, 16 May 94 21:21:59 CDT
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Shall Not Perish 19: SW Navy & Army

Gentlesophonts:

Expanding on the Regency Navy and Army posts, let's look at the Sword
Worlds in detail.  This exercise might serve as an example for expansion
of any Regency subsector military forces.

There are no clear rules (with the exception of possible *Trillion Credit
Squadron*, which I don't have) tying naval forces to any sort of UWP data.
Based upon the `1000 ships per sector' mentioned in the *Rebellion 
Sourcebook* we get an `average' of 62.5 ships per subsector.  Based upon the
world generation rules, in the Spinward Marches we get an average of 26.7
worlds per subsector with a total average subsector population of 46 billion.
This, combined with the average ship figure, works out to an average of
roughly 700,000,000 people per regular naval combat ship.  This is a very
rough number, and specifically does not account for tech level effects, but
I'll use it nevertheless.  I welcome any `less soft' figures though.

This number suggests that only Pop 8+ worlds will be able to support regular
naval forces.  This doesn't quite `jive' with *5FW* (Joyeuse, a Pop 7
worlds raised a fleet) but it's a fair working point.

Combining this with the *JTAS* #10 "Troops in the Fifth Frontier War"
article we get the following forces for major Sword Worlds:

Tizon (pop 300,000,000; TL 10)
 No ships
 One corps (1C-10), two divisions (20-10)
Narsil (pop 20,000,000,000; TL 10)
 29 ships (J1-10)
 Four armies (5C-10), one corps (1C-10)
Anduril (pop 200,000,000; TL 11)
 No ships
 One corps (1C-11), one division (20-11)
Gram (pop 6,000,000,000; TL 11)
 Nine ships (J2-11)
 Five corps (1C-11), one brigade (10-11)
Sacnoth (pop 3,000,000,000; TL 12)
 Four ships (J3-12)
 Five corps (1C-12), one brigade (10-12)
Sting (pop 300,000,000; TL 10)
 No ships
 One corps (1C-10), two divisions (20-10)

Thus, the entire Confederate Navy consists of 42 ships.  The Confederate
Army consists of something around seven armies.  These figures seem a little
low but keep in mind there has been no accounting for what are called
reserve or `colonial' forces in the Imperium.  These are `older' forces
used to supplement the regular forces.  For the Confederate naval reserve
let's assume an additional 42 ships but at one TL below that of the regular
forces: 29 at TL 9 (J1-9), nine at TL 10 (J1-10) and four at TL 11 (J2-11).
These `reserve' forces may have comprised the Joyeuse Fleet of the 5FW.

The Confederate regular army forces are for offworld or `offensive'
operations and do not reflect indigieous defense battalions on each world.

This example could be used to develop naval and army forces for any subsector
in the Regency (or elsewhere).  I hope we see it so applied!

Happy Travelling,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

------------------------------

Bundle: 605
Archive-Message-Number: 7594
From: Rob Dean <robdean@access.digex.net>
Subject: Re: Deep Space Stations
Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 23:16:30 -0400 (ADT)

Chuck Hamilton writes:

> However, how are a planet's big system defense fleets and large planetary
> defense batteries perceived by its Larger Political Entity (Imperium or Con-
> sulate)?  I think they do not like them at all.  First I'll give some
> Traveller facts and then I'll do some interpretation.

You will forgive me, I hope, if I dispute with some of your facts...

> Fact 1: Planetary defense forts are not covered in Traveller literature.  The
> closest thing is "planetary defense battalions" from the boardgame "Invasion:
> Earth", which are not that effective.

Since it is getting late, and I don't want to root through my pile of 
Traveller stuff just before going to bed, I won't try to cite page numbers.
However, we do know that "deep meson gun sites" are the preferred method
of ground-based planetary defense, and that these are supplemented by
ground-based missiles and lasers.  I agree that these devices do not show
up in 5FW, which I _do_ have in front of me as I type.

> Fact 2: System defense boats are the accepted mechanism for system defense.
> But, the quantities for these seem very low.  I think a Traveller News
> Service brief from the JTAS "War" issue read something like "the ten heavy
> SDBs in the Regina system were sent to defend the system gas giant, which
> would be the first priority of an attacking fleet."  This seems like a
> very small number for a world at the edge of the Imperium.

Regina has only 10 SDBs, according to the 5FW map.  However, the numbers of
boats are strongly dependent on population, and Regina is not a high-population
world.  Jewell has 120 TL12 boats, Efate 150 at TL13, Rhylanor has 200 at
TL15, Zivije 120 at TL11, Louzy _500_ at TL8, Rethe has another 500, and
Porozlo has 1000 SDBs at TL10. 5FW does not distinguish between TLs for SDB
efficiency, so those 1000 Porozlo boats are quite a menace to any invading
Zho fleet.  Checking the population levels produces the following:

Population A: 500-1000 SDBs
           9: 100-200
           8: 10-12
           7: 1
          6-: 0

Note that some of the worlds in the population 8 or higher category also
contribute local jump-capable squadrons to the Imperial forces in 5FW.

I don't really think that the Imperium (as depicted) is all that hostile 
to local forces.

This reminds me--someone posted a few weeks ago that they didn't think that
the Imperium allowed multi-planet governmental bodies.  Go back and check
Adventure 7: Broadsword, for an example of a world (Garda Vilis) ruled from
the neighboring world (Vilis).  Also, there are quite a few type 6 governments
in the Spinward Marches.  I play that _some_ of these may be under direct
Imperial control, but the majority are in situations like that of Garda
Vilis.

Rob Dean
(creaky oldtimer making special guest appearance)

------------------------------

Bundle: 605
Archive-Message-Number: 7595
Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 10:56:26 -0600
From: RJR96326@vax1.utulsa.edu (J Roberson)
Subject: Life & Death

>Imagine you are in a sealed room. How long does it take a person to die
>    because the air gets bad - and why? Is it lack of Oxygen, or the
>    presence of impurities?

I think you eventually pass out from the unrecycled air - you fall asleep
as your brain gets oxygen starved, and you don't wake up until the New Era
;)

>If the room is filled not with air, but with Oxygen only:

        You will die. Pure oxygen is poisonous to people, especially at
high pressures (this from a Cthulhu adventure I ran based on the bottom of
the South Pacific, but also corroborated by my J-o-T skill).

>- -   what atmospheric pressure should it be at to be safe? I believe that if
>    the pressure is too high the atmosphere promotes any sort of minor
>    spark into a serious fire/explosive hazard.

        See above. I'm not quite sure that oxygen is poisonous at normal
pressure, but I'm sure it is under pressure. And yes, pure oxygen and
sparks do not mix in a pleasant fashion.

>- -   how long before a typical human unfortunate dies from bad air in this
>   scenario.

        Depends on how much such a human had to start with. How big is the
room? When does the air shut off? Are thei spare tanks?

I think you could hedge on this to whatever is appropriate to the
adventure. Just assume that the room had x hours of air left, or had x
hours of backup air, or that x hours of air are in some convenient Vacc
Suits lying in the corner.

>At what tech level can you build guns out of non metallic materials?

Define Gun. You can build a simple gun-like contraption from natural
materials. If you want something more refined then you will have to wait
until the proper process comes along. I would say that only at TL7-8 (I'm
more used to GURPS TLs, but I think those are the corresponding Traveller
TLs for Modern Times) for the ceramic/plastic guns that seem to get past
metal detectors.

> ..   What sort of non metallic materials are possible - plastics, carbon
>    fibre, or what?

I'd bet MacGyver could build a simple Cannon-Locke or Matchlock out of
Bamboo and twine. . .

> ..   At what tech level can you build caseless ammo and weapons to use it?
>    And when does the result become as practical as weapons using cased
>    ammo?

I would say the modern day. Caseless ammo requires being able to
manufacture a round with the powder already on it and not held by a
cartridge. Of course, technically I guess the old ball-and-musket was
"caseless" in a sense. . .
- -----
>I rifled the barrel. Is this ok on a pistol? (I am afraid I don't know
>anything >about real guns).

You mad, impetuous fool! Yes, it is A-OK :)


_________________________________
Eugenics: Chlorination of the Gene Pool.
Consistency is a Flaw.
J Roberson      RJR96326@vax1.utulsa.edu        Priss@io.com





------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Wed, 18 May 94 22:00:03 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #606: Msgs 7596-7624 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Wed May 18 22:00:02 EDT 1994
Reply-To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Errors-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 May 94 22:00:03 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #606: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 606  7596 16-May-1994 Mark Cook        Re: TML: A House Divided? << In Archive
 606  7597 16-May-1994 Steve Gibbons    TML split << Greetings Gentle-sophonts,
 606  7598 16-May-1994 Leonard Erickso  Deep Space refueling <<  
 606  7599 17-May-1994 Steven M Bonnev  Air / Planetary Defense << Alistair Lan
 606  7618 17-May-1994 b.borich@genie.  Pre-Tne TML <<     Or one could seperat
 606  7619 17-May-1994 James T Perkins  Re: Misc. Questions  << langsl@cbr.hhcs
 606  7620 17-May-1994 "Bruce Johnson"  Firearms questions from Alistair << Ali
 606  7621 17-May-1994 Matthew Mactyre  TNE Errata << Greetings All,
 606  7622 17-May-1994 David Johnson    Misc: Breath of Life << Alistair Langsf
 606  7623 17-May-1994 Roger Myhre      Sunbane                   << I've tried
 606  7624 17-May-1994 CHiggin@aol.com  Pre-Virus/TNE list <<     David Johnson

------------------------------

Bundle: 606
Archive-Message-Number: 7596
From: Mark Cook <markc@CSOS.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: TML: A House Divided?
Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 21:18:42 -0700 (PDT)

In Archive-Message-Number 7578, David Johnson
<djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov> writes:

> I'm going to get to Mark Cook's arguments for the separate list in a moment.
> (Nothing personal Mark, you're just a handy proponent.)

Not a problem.  I'm slipping on my Nomex union suit. :^)

> That said, Mark Cook <markc@CSOS.ORST.EDU> writes:
> 
> > Join both groups.  If the hassle is too much, maybe your enthusiasm isn't
> > enough.
> 
> One might suggest the same about `oldtimers' who find it too much hassle to
> put up with the `noise' of TNE postings.

Granted, but the 'two group' idea would solve the problem for both
groups.  Those that don't like TNE can avoid it easily, and those
that like all the Traveller variations can mail to and read both lists.

> I'm not sure I buy this.  If all these folks were still contributing there
> wouldn't be such a `low signal-to-noise' ratio.

The ratio would be better, but the noise wouldn't be any less.  To me
(and, I suspect, many others), getting 1000 lines of useful material
out of 2000 lines of signal is not much better than getting 200 lines
of useful material out of 1200 lines of signal.

> > It a separate group, it ceases to be a problem for us, and those of you
> > that enjoy TNE (and creamed spinich and enemas and so on...) can stay
> > right here and do exactly what you've been doing all along.
> > 
> > > Seems like a rather lopsided issue to me.
> > 
> > Seems like a pretty selfish one to me.  You'd rather keep us around, even
> > when we don't want to be here, rather than lose part of your audience?
> 
> Hmmm.  There seems to be plenty `selfishness' to go around here.

OK, point taken.  I was out of line with that crack and I apologize.

>                                                                   Look, 
> I'm just as pissed as anyone at what GDW has done to Traveller and I don't
> appreciate these `newbies' bitching about my `whining' all the time either
> but that doesn't mean I want to pick up my toys and go play by myself.

The problem is, Dave, that a lot of folks have alreayd picked up their
toys and left.  This might (no guarantees) get some of them back.  I say
this not because I just want the increased volume, but because many of
them were outstanding contributors.

> > This may cause many folks that dropped out to come back.  The flip side
> > is many are leaving anyway, they just don't have anywhere else to go.
> 
> I doubt it, but I'd like to offer a challenge to allow you to prove me wrong.

Sigh.  I wish it were that easy.  I'd love to prove you wrong, in the
fashion you offer, just to get the old timers back.  Unfortunately, if
any sort of pre-TNE incentive is offered, I suspect that what we're
more likely to see is a gradual return of some of the more interested
folks.  There are many that are still members of the TML today, but
just don't speak up out of lack of interest in the TNE.  If I weren't
so mouthy, you wouldn't ever hear from me. :^)  Scott Kellogg doesn't
post nearly as often as he used to before TNE (although his posts are
every bit as worthwhile and valuable as they used to be.)  Surprisingly
enough, this very subject (the TML/TNE split) has brought a couple
of old-timers out of the shadows, if ever so briefly, to wit:

Paul Dale <grue@cs.uq.oz.au> writes:

> 	I tend to agree with Mark.  I'd prefer a second list dealing
> with non TNE stuff.  Even though I don't dislike TNE too much, the volume
> has been a little intense recently.
> 
> Guess this means I vote for the split.

 ...and Gerry Williams <gsw@aloft.att.com> writes:

> As far as I see, the only issue is if enough people are
> interested in an "old traveller" mailing list, especially
> those that have already left because of TNE.  People who
> want it all can just subscribe to both.
> 
> The only inconvenience this should cause is if a great
> deal of cross-posting occurs, although given that the
> past high-volume contributors have largely been quiet or
> left the list, this seems unlikely.
> 
> Other than discussing valid impediments to splitting the
> list, let's not argue about it or take sides.
> 
> P.S. I would be interested in joining the new list.

For those folks that remember, we've lost the priceless wisdom
of Metlay, the wonderful ship designs of Rob Dean, and many
others.  I never see posts from Bertil Jonell any more, and
I can't recall the last time Adrian Hurt stomped me into a
tortilla, arguing weapon designs.  Too many of the old, rich
voices are silent, and I for one, would almost anything to
get them back.

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
 mark f. cook * mark cook consulting * shoestring graphics & printing
2055 sw whiteside dr. * corvallis, or, 97333-1406 * markc@csos.orst.edu
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
"When your enemy falls, don't rejoice -- but don't pick him up either."
                                             - Yiddish proverb

------------------------------

Bundle: 606
Archive-Message-Number: 7597
Date: Mon, 16 May 1994 21:41:33 MST
From: Steve Gibbons <steve@nereid.sunquest.com>
Reply-To: steve@sunquest.com
Subject: TML split

Greetings Gentle-sophonts,

It has been suggested (and argued) that the TML list should be split into
several splinter groups.

I think that both sides have stated their points of view:
1) The volume and noise/signal ratios of the current TML are too high for me.
2) What's a little volume, it's the contributions that matter, wade through the
   cruft - the rest of us do.

Personally, I find myself falling into the first camp for various reasons, some
of which are technical and some of which are personal.  Firstly, I receive the
nightly bundles, which is about all that I can handle at one sitting since I'm
saddled with a MUA that does _not_ automatically break the digests down into
individual messages for me.  This same limitation in my MUA requires me to wade
through entire articles that I couldn't give a hoot about just to get to a
short posting that I _am_ interested in.

I think that James's suggestion of automatic, individualized digests would make
everyone happy, you get what you want to read, you can post to the relevant
sub-lists as needed, heck you can cross-post if it's relevant to more than one
group.

I don't think that requiring a special "tag" in the subject line is the proper
way to go about things, though.  It makes much more sense to me (from a
technical point of view) to have separate mailing addresses for each of the
list, as well as separate "digestifiers" for each list.  If you want to
cross-post then send the message to all of the lists that are (or might be)
concerned.

I might also include a list called "Traveller-general",(or somesuch) that would
(hopefully) have broad appeal.  In the case of a cross-post to more than (say)
three sub-groups, the _actual_ message woud be posted to Traveller-general, and
only a short pointer message would be cross-posted to the others.

Yes, this scheme requires some thought in posting, but the poster _has_ to
realize that he/she's not only using up his/her own time, but the time of
countless others that may or may not have the same specific interests.

I think that it would be much more efficient in general to split the various
sub-groups out, require those that are interested to subscribe (or perhaps
subsribe them by default, and let them unsubsribe if they wish) than to
continue with the current high-volume mish-mash that we currently have.

As an aside, I probably will subscribe to any and all Traveller related mailing
lists that get created.  The main advantage for me will be that I'll be able to
_concentrate_ on what _I'm_ most interested in, possibly skipping the other
stuff if I don't have the time for it at the moment.

I hope that the message above made sense, It's been a 12-hour day for me, and
I'm not done yet...  :(

- --
Steve@Sunquest.COM

------------------------------

Bundle: 606
Archive-Message-Number: 7598
Date: Mon, 16 May 94 21:18:38 PST
From: Leonard.Erickson@f51.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Deep Space refueling

 
I 've been following the discussion, and note a *major* suumption being
made by practically everyone. An incorrect assumption, at that.

Interstellar space is not "empty". It's full of all sorts of dark
matter. Comet nuclei, the occasional planet,  giant molecular clouds,
etc.

A comet nucleus is a "dirty snowball", that is, it's water ice, with
amonia, methanne, and a fair amount of "dirt". The dirt willl be mostly
fairly finely divided stuff like carbonaceus chondrite meteoric
material. Plus bits or rock and other things.  And these snowballs will
be tens to hundreds of kilometers in diameter.

It'll be *real* easy to extract hydrogen, carbon, oxygen, nitrogen, and
many other things useful for ship fuel or life support from these. And
even the small ones will supply fuel and other consumables for *decades*
of heavy use.

This may be a good reason for carrying fuel purification plants. If you
mis-jump into an "empty" hex, you have a fair chance of locating
something useful if you stretch your sensors to the limit and use
manuever fuel (and low berths) carefully. In CT or MT, scratch the bit
about manuever fuel. :-)

Also, once found, relocating them would be easy. Especially if you
plant a good beacon. I'm willing to bet that pirates and
revolutionaries would find these ideal hideouts.

I'd also be willing to bet that a number of such "bases" whether
illegal, or just "company secret" might survive the Virus, because
they'd have long practice in "I'm not here" tactics. If a ship jumps in
and doesn't give the right codes, they won't broadcast anything to it.
And if it acts "wrong" it'll be considered an enemy and dealt with. If
it's merely a misjumped ship, well, accidents happen.

This could explain the survival of groups of merchant ships. The
locations and codes wouldn't be entered into the ship's computers so as
to prevent them being found by the law or by competitors. Likewise, log
entries would be faked to make it seem like the ship had made one jump,
not two (or more) small jumps. So the virus might never find out about
them.
- --  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!51!Leonard.Erickson
Internet: Leonard.Erickson@f51.n105.z1.fidonet.org

------------------------------

Bundle: 606
Archive-Message-Number: 7599
Date: Tue, 17 May 1994 00:05:33 -0500
From: bonnevil@mermaid.micro.umn.edu (Steven M Bonneville)
Subject: Air / Planetary Defense

Alistair Langsford <langsl@cbr.hhcs.gov.au3 writes:

>Imagine you are in a sealed room. How long does it take a person to die
>    because the air gets bad - and why? Is it lack of Oxygen, or the
>    presence of impurities?

Yes. :)  The people in the room breathe in oxygen and breathe out carbon
dioxide (well, some anyway; as anyone trained in CPR knows, a fair amount
of oxygen goes out too.)  Eventually, the oxygen partial pressure in the
chamber falls in favor of the carbon dioxide, until not enough oxygen is
left in the room for the occupants to continue respiration.  How big is
the room?

If you're really interested in this, check out old submarine stories --
WWII-era and prior submarine crews were *vitally* concerned with this 
question.  The old "diesel" boats equipped with the German schnorkel
could run their motors underwater, and ventilate with outside air, but
carbon *monoxide* fumes still could cause problems.  A lot of research
was done on both, from what I understand.  Nowadays, nuclear subs have
enough power to spare for "scrubbing" systems that this isn't the same
sort of problem.

As for the question about the pure oxygen environment, I'll leave that
to the Apollo 1 experts in the crowd.  Actually, come to think of it,
carbon dioxide build-up was an important hurdle for the disastrous  
Apollo 13 mission as well.


Chuck Hamilton <c_hamilton%w036_nw@MWMGATE1.mitre.org> writes:

>Fact 1: Planetary defense forts are not covered in Traveller literature.  The
>closest thing is "planetary defense battalions" from the boardgame "Invasion:
>Earth", which are not that effective.

The battalions were grav-mobile, and had about the same bombardment factor
as a BatRon (but not same defense/offense).  Earth also had three corps-
level PD emplacements, non-mobile, one identified with each starport on
the chit.  Those had the highest bombardment in the game and a sizable
defense garrison.  Are you speaking from tactical experience?

Also, I'm unconvinced Earth is a fair example...it's possible both sides
were treading lighter than they wanted lest they risk damaging Earth too
much in the fighting, for political reasons at least all around.

  Steve Bonneville
  <bonneville@mermaid.micro.umn.edu>


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Bundle: 606
Archive-Message-Number: 7618
From: b.borich@genie.geis.com
Date: Tue, 17 May 94 14:31:00 UTC
Subject: Pre-Tne TML

    Or one could seperate the TML into the Imperium based discussions
(background) and another for rules based discussions (CT/MT/TNE/Var).
    Personally I'm just as sorry to see some of the 'old-timers' go
here and elsewhere and wouldn't mind to see them back. But I don't really
expect some of them to make it back because there are too many differences
caused by the new TNE/FF&S rules (Virus/ship movement). I don't know.
    Whether the Virus is a good thing or a bad thing is a mote point now.
It's a fact of the TNE era. (the suggestion made here that the Virus
has some psionic ability to alter its ciruitry is however a very good
suggestion to make it more realistic).
    As for the ship movement problem, I happen to remember a vocal outcry
about the unrealistic DGP thrusters and about getting more science into
Traveller again. To a certain extent that's what we got.
    Admittedly not everything's perfect (to say it mildly for some).
    Hey, it's only a game, a Sci-Fi game at that. Game Designers are not
scientists (and even if they were, there would still be disagreement
over what's real and what's not).
 
    I think some things got forgotten in all the flaming back and forth
over TNE. (And more people would join the TML if the flaming disappeared,
but they have no desire to waste their time or bandwidth listening to
the flaming).
    1.  It's a game.
    2.  It's not real life.
    3.  You don't like it, change it. Give the fixes to others (Maybe it'll
become an 'official' variant).
 
 
    <100-diameters> For work on the Antares Down adventure it was decided
(at least initially) to make the jump point 100 diameters out from the
radius of the star. This was a plot device to make life more interesting.
Since this never made print it can be considered unofficial. And
considering new TNE ship movement rules, maybe not desired.
 
    <Andy - Green Virus> See The Stand <grin. Better yet read the book>. Or
even the Andromeda Strain (the book is better here too). Another thought that
had been made was just to worsen the effects of the Black war period of the
Imperium (so to speak).

------------------------------

Bundle: 606
Archive-Message-Number: 7619
Subject: Re: Misc. Questions 
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Administrator)
Date: Tue, 17 May 94 09:04:43 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@sp-eug.com>


langsl@cbr.hhcs.gov.au writes:
> If the room is filled not with air, but with Oxygen only: - what
> atmospheric pressure should it be at to be safe? I believe that if 
> the pressure is too high the atmosphere promotes any sort of minor 
> spark into a serious fire/explosive hazard.

Humans are used to breathing area that is 80% N2, 20% O2. The air
pressure they breathe it at is 14.7 lbs/in^2. The partial pressure of O2
is about 0.20 * 14.7 lbs/in^2, or about 2.9 lbs/in^2. This is the
theoretical minimum air pressure that humans can sustain while still
being able to get adequate oxygen supply to their cells. The practical
minimum air pressure, however, tends to be higher than this -- for one
thing, altitude sickness may set in at this low a pressure (bodily
fluids filling up the lungs). Also, pure O2 is only wise for short
periods as it tends to oxidize the linings of one's lungs. I believe
that astronaut's space suits have them running about at 4-5 lbs/in^2,
and the cabins of early space craft at around 6-7 lbs/in^2.

I think the shuttle uses a O2/N2 mix that approximates earth atmosphere
at sea level. All that inert N2 adds a lot of weight but makes the
astronauts much more comfortable.

James

------------------------------

Bundle: 606
Archive-Message-Number: 7620
From: "Bruce Johnson" <JOHNSON@tonic.pharm.arizona.edu>
Date:         Tue, 17 May 1994 10:27:40 MST
Subject:      Firearms questions from Alistair

Alistair asks...

>Some questions on firearms...
>- -------------------------------

> ..   At what tech level can you build guns out of non metallic 
>materials?
> ..   What sort of non metallic materials are possible - plastics, 
>carbon fibre, or what? 
> ..   At what tech level can you build caseless ammo and weapons to 
>use it? And when does the result become as practical as weapons 
>using cased ammo?

	There has been some debate over alternate materials over in 
Rec.guns, particularly about stuff like the 'plastic' gun depicted in the 
movie "In the Line of Fire'.  For those who haven't seen it (and don't 
mind a spoiler;-) the bad guy, an expert in making plastic and 
composite materials (among other things) makes a simple two shot 
pistol that would pass through a metal detector.  Opinions varied, but 
given current tech levels on Earth (8-10 or whatever) such a gun is 
quite possible.  Also, remember the infamous Glock 'plastic' pistol of 
several years back.  It was mostly made from non-metallic 
components.  The company has since increased the percentage of 
ferrous metal components, but at the time it was quite revolutionary in 
design.  Similarly, ceramic materials of sufficient toughness and 
durability exist to make the hard part of firearms today; what lacks is 
the economic incentive to make them.  Steel is cheap, and will 
probably continue to be cheap for some time to come.  There are 
other considerations to making guns lighter, too.  As long as we're 
using guns that recoil, a lighter gun is not neccessarily better.  Since 
perceived recoil is very dependent on the mass of the gun, a light gun 
has more perceived recoil, and a much greater effect on the accuracy 
of that second shot.  A Marlin .44 mag carbine has much less 
perceived recoil than a .44 mag snub revolver, and is much more 
accurate. Weight also affects the first shot accuracy as well.  A 
heavier gun requires more effort to move it, so small motions are 
less likely to upset the aim once it's established.. 

	Therefore the only time that non-metallic components will be 
used, in firearms, or anything else, for that matter, is when they 
impart a greater advantage over more conventional materials.  This is 
pretty much a standard dictum of manufacturing design.  Carbon fiber 
composite materials are pretty much state of the art stuff, as 
materials go, but they're commonly used in fishing rods, because 
they're so much better that other alternatives (performance-wise) that 
they make economic sense, oce you're tooled up to make them in 
quantity.  OTOH, the same carbon fiber technology is usable to make 
bicycle frames, but since the margin of performance gain is so much 
smaller over the best of more common materials, they're only used in 
very high performance (read ungodly expensive) applications.

	The same applies to caseless ammunition.  Caseless 
ammunition is in common use today...it's used for the 20 and 30 mm 
cannons used in fighter aircraft like the US F-16, and others (I don't 
know any others off hand)  These give a huge advantage over 
conventional cased ammo.  You lose the weight of the shells, and so 
can carry more ammo, and you don't have to store the shells after 
firing them.  (a great problem with cased is that when ejected from a 
highspeed aircraft during dogfight maneuvers, they can easily cause 
great damage to the aircraft firing them)  So, in one sense, we're (at 
tech 8 or 10, whatever we are) already capable of caseless ammo. 
Similarly, there have been experimental hand weapons made that 
use caseless ammunition for a few years now.  This has other 
problems, namely durability, and safety.  Coventional cased 
ammunition can be dropped, ground into the dirt, carried through mud, 
dunked in streams, rattle around in a pocket for years, and still work.  
Such durability hasn't been verified for the caseless ammunition 
avaliable today.  It will become practical, when A) it does prove as 
durable and useful as conventional ammunition, and B) it is 
sufficiently cheap that is is cost effective to switch, which involves a 
weapon redesign.  The latter probably won't happen until a 
government or two, large ones, decide that this is the new standard, 
and order it for their armies. Then, thanks to the economies of scale, 
caseless becomes cheaper and more avaliable than cased, and will 
probably start to supplant it.

	This long winded explanation of something tha would be easily 
answered by going to my books (or my campaign, where to simplify 
things, all commonly avaliable guns are caseless, and come in two 
calibers) is to point out what I percieve as a great problem of the 
'granularity' of the Tech level scale.  As someone has pointed out, 
Earth today is a low tech level, but only because we don't have 
interstellar flight.  Since the tech level is based on broad classes of 
technology, I don't think it's applicable to very minute detail, so the 
question of 'when is caseless ammunition avaliable' is really moot.  
It's avaliable when it's needed and economically viable.  We had 
'caseless' ammunition over a hundred and fifty years ago, when 
paper cased cartriges for muzzleloading rifles were in common use; 
what tech level were we in 1800?

Bruce Johnson
The University of Arizona
johnson@tonic.pharm.arizona.edu (work :-(
bej@gas.uug.arizona.edu (play :-)

My opinions, All Mine! 

------------------------------

Bundle: 606
Archive-Message-Number: 7621
Date: Tue, 17 May 1994 13:53:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matthew Mactyre <mactyre@scs.unr.edu>
Subject: TNE Errata

Greetings All,

This is probably a question already answered in the dim (or immediate 
past).  However, I need to get a copy of the TNE Errata for "Traveller: 
The New Era," and "Fire, Fusion and Steel."  Where can I get it?  Could 
someone E-mail it to me?

Thanks in advance,

Matthew

------------------------------

Bundle: 606
Archive-Message-Number: 7622
Date: Tue, 17 May 94 16:10:26 CDT
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Misc: Breath of Life

Alistair Langsford <langsl@cbr.hhcs.gov.au> asks:

> Imagine you are in a sealed room. How long does it take a person to die 
>     because the air gets bad

It depends on the volume of the room and how many folks are trying to
breathe.  Of course, I don't know *how* it depends (i.e. minutes per
liter of air per person).  It also depends on the pressure and percentage
of oxygen.  The greater the pressure and/or oxygen concentration (and
the fewer the people) the longer you can survive.

> - and why? Is it lack of Oxygen, or the 
>     presence of impurities?

It's lack of oxygen, unless impurities are also being introduced.  The
human waste product, carbon dioxide, isn't harmful.

> If the room is filled not with air, but with Oxygen only:
> - -   what atmospheric pressure should it be at to be safe? I believe that if 
>     the pressure is too high the atmosphere promotes any sort of minor 
>     spark into a serious fire/explosive hazard.

The explosive hazard is a product of oxygen concentration not pressure.
The higher the concentration, at any pressure, the greater the risk.
The confusion comes from the fact that higher concentrations permit the
air to be `breatheable' at lower pressures.  Thus, early US spacecraft
used all-oxygen atmospheres at lower pressure (some chemistry folks or
divers can probably explain the partial-pressure thing) because the
craft pressure vessel didn't need to be as strong if the internal pressure
was lower.  The capsule fire in Apollo I on the launch pad changed all
that.  Since then, US spacecraft have taken the weight hit and used 
stronger crew pressure vessels in order to keep the oxygen concentration
closer to what it is in `normal' atmosphere.

> - -   how long before a typical human unfortunate dies from bad air in this 
>     scenario.

A 100% concentration of oxygen at the same pressure as `air' (~20% oxygen)
would permit you to breathe about five times longer but you would probably
only use a 100% oxygen environment at lower pressure (in order to gain the
stength/weight savings of the early US spacecraft).  At 20% of atmospheric
pressure (or thereabouts) you wouldn't live any longer in a 100% oxygen
environment than you would in a 20% oxygen atmosphere at standard pressure.
Below 20% of atmospheric pressure you'd having trouble breathing even in
a 100% oxygen environment.

There isn't really a simple answer to your question.  Me, I'd just wing
it.  Either they get out in time, or they don't.  :-)

Happy Travelling,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

P.S.  Note the `Misc' subject indicator in my subject line.

------------------------------

Bundle: 606
Archive-Message-Number: 7623
Date: Tue, 17 May 1994 23:10:00 +0200
From: Roger Myhre <myhre@oslonett.no>
Subject: Sunbane                  

I've tried to reach Sunbane for almost a week now without any luck.
I have compiled all the Gvurrdon docs I have written for HIWG. They are
waiting at my local server, Oslonett, to be transfered to Sunbane.

I would appreciate if anyone could inform me if the FTP site is
temporary down, and eventually when it will be back online.

BTW: I'm also sitting on a large collection of other HIWG docs from
other HIWG members. These docs are mainly MT related, but I think much
of the stuff can be used in either CT, MT and/or TNE. I haven't read or
cataloged all the docs yet. But I'll certainly do if you are interested
in getting them. It all depends on I get to Sunbane or not <sigh>.

And if I'm going to upload HIWG docs, it may be wise to make a directory
for those docs so that they are not mixed among all the other things
lying there.

BTW2: My first attempt of transfering the Gvurrdon docs failed, when it
seems that either the ZIP packer corrupts the file in one way or the
other so that it can't be transfered properly. Or that Oslonett is not
handling the communication port properly. My question is, can you handle
LHA packing? It would greatly reduce the file sizes, and I can include
several related documents into one file.




Roger "StarWolf" Myhre
                

------------------------------

Bundle: 606
Archive-Message-Number: 7624
From: CHiggin@aol.com
Date: Tue, 17 May 94 17:44:45 EDT
Subject: Pre-Virus/TNE list


    David Johnson:

   >Now, please, Mark (and others), let's not have more argument
   >about our arguments about a new list.  Just take me up on my
   >challenge and start posting all that pre-TNE stuff to the TML.
   >You don't even have to wait until June 1st - get that
   >`signal-to-noise' ratio up *now* because every bit of bandwidth
   >that's wasted arguing against me instead of being pre-TNE posts
   >just makes my case and argues against a separate list.

    I was initially for the idea of a pre-Virus list...  because I was
    hoping that all those discussions about the Imperial background,
    equipment, places, amber zones, etc.  would come back.  I don't
    give 0.02 credits for the RCES, and the only use I have for the
    Regency stuff is for filling in holes in the c. 1112 Domain of
    Deneb area.  The Earth Colonies stuff is fascinating, but I'm not
    sure yet what I'll do with it.

    ...but a pre-Virus TML is pointless if nobody posts on it.  I
    think David has a point; is anyone still interested in DISCUSSING
    the era besides me?  I have stuff I could have posted, but I
    sensed an underwhelming amount of interest in pre-Virus material
    -- all the posts were about TNE gun designs, Regency politics,
    RCES politics, etc, etc, etc.  I once issued an appeal for TNE
    ship designs from the TML's famous ship designers (that's you,
    Scott and Robert!), and saw nothing posted in return.

    I say pre-Virus list, because like someone else here, I like the
    TNE rules, but despise the background.  I'd like to be able to
    discuss Pre-Virus and alternate history backgrounds, but using TNE
    rules,too.  Am I just whistling Dixie?  Or is there a chance of
    this happening?

                        -- Cynthia Higginbotham


    "Q:  What is the difference between the BATF and the Gestapo?"
    "A:  BATF agents speak English."



------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Wed, 18 May 94 22:00:03 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #607: Msgs 7625-7629 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Wed May 18 22:00:02 EDT 1994
Reply-To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Errors-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 May 94 22:00:03 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #607: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 607  7625 17-May-1994 David Johnson    Alt: Earth Colonies News Service << Gen
 607  7626 17-May-1994 David Johnson    Alt: Earth Colonies Sophonts: Aeroi << 
 607  7627 17-May-1994 Steve Charlton   Imperial Navy/Army Organization << Ther
 607  7628 17-May-1994 David Johnson    Alt: Earth Colonies 3D Astrogation << G
 607  7629 17-May-1994 David Johnson    Shall Not Perish 17 - SW TL << Gentleso

------------------------------

Bundle: 607
Archive-Message-Number: 7625
Date: Tue, 17 May 94 17:54:39 CDT
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Alt: Earth Colonies News Service

Gentlesophonts:

The following news briefs appeared in *Melbourne Times* #2:

Melbourne Times News Service

Anokye/Pollux (1419.16 B848689-B) 21 Apr 3001
 In its official report released today, the Navy confirmed that the
unidentified ship destroyed at Epimetheus/Pollux three weeks ago by the frigate
Foch was an Aztlan Maza-class escort.
 According to the report, the Foch was conducting frontier refuelling shortly
after emerging from jump when it encountered the unidentified ship in the upper
reaches of the gas giant's atmosphere.  When it refused to respond to the
Foch's hail, the ship was fired upon and eventually destroyed.
 Initial efforts to identify the ship were hindered by the loss of the
wreckage in the giant's lower atmosphere.  The report states that the ship was
identified after an analysis of telemetry gathered by the Foch during the
engagement.
 A spokesperson for Commodore Geraldine Kolchak declined to comment on the
report, but sources close to the Commodore stated that the discovery of an
Aztlan warship in Commonwealth space was certain to lead to further escalation
of tensions in the Pollux subsector.

Dedn/Europa (2934.30 AA6A865-D) 24 Apr 3001
 In a terse communique released today, the mysterious Committee for State
Security announced that it had assumed all executive authority in the Meren
Worlds.
 Actual composition of the Committee remains unclear.  The Committee has been
rumored to be an extension of the reactionary wing of the Expansionist Clique,
which has suffered from increasing turmoil since the end of the Markets War.
 The status and location of Morrochai Gvo remains unknown.  The communique
stated that the Meren Autarch had been "relieved of its responsibilities" by
the Committee.
 In a separate statement, Ivondond Verch, leader of the Reformist Clique and a
frequent critic of the Autarch in the past, called for Morrochai's restoration
to its "appropriate and lawful position" and characterized the action of the
Committee for State Security as a "supra-legal usurpation of executive
authority".

New Canaan/Gaea (2215.10 A865999-D) 27 Apr 3001
 The New Lhasa Skystupa fell to the ground today.
 The gravitic spiritual and entertainment complex slowly descended from its
aerial position 800 meters above the city after its main gravitic generator
shut down.  A Skystupa spokesperson stressed that it had been a controlled
descent and that the Skystupa's 860,000 inhabitants were never in danger.
 The cause of the generator failure has yet to be determined.  The
spokesperson stated that Skystupa engineers hoped to have the complex airborne
again within a few days.
 The New Lhasa Skystupa is the first gravitic urban complex developed on New
Canaan.  The effect of the generator failure upon additional Skystupas
currently under construction at New Medina and New Istanbul remains unclear.

Aztlan/Procyon (0911.20 A9879A7-D) 28 Apr 3001
 The Imperial Household announced the engagement today of Crown Princess Sola.
The heir to the Adamant Throne will wed Don Arturo Kumate, an officer in the
Diplomatic Corps.
 The Crown Princess, currently serving as an auxiliary craft pilot in the
Imperial Navy, had long shown little interest in marriage.  Sources in the
Household have denied reports that the Crown Princess was pressured into the
engagement by Empress Ana and Grand Duke Guillermo.
 Don Arturo first met the Crown Princess nearly 18 months ago during a
reception held for her by the Ehime monarch at the Ehime embassy.  Don Arturo
has served as Her Majesty's ambassador to the Ehime court for the past three
years.
 The wedding, in accordance with Imperial tradition, has been scheduled to
coincide with the annual Festival of the Founders to be held later this year. 

Earth/Sirius (1720.19 A867988-D) 01 May 3001
 Earthsteward Emile Cevera opened year-long ceremonies today celebrating the
Tricentennial of the founding of the Commonwealth of Earth.
 "As we cross this threshold of our fourth century, we reach forward to the
myriad of opportunities that beckon to us," said Cevera in remarks carried live
across the globe.
 The Commonwealth Tricentennial will be celebrated in a variety of events over
the next year throughout the worlds of the Commonwealth.  The celebration will
climax with the Commonwealth Games to be held here at Earth.

Nyanza/Nyanza (1531.12 A86898A-D) 03 May 3001
 The Nyanzan Subsector factor for Ysinal udi-Quinan announced today that the
Aeroi mercantile giant had reached an agreement with the Nyanzan Navy to
provide armed escorts for YuQ shipping operations in Nyanza, Wanganui, Aquila
and Ourora subsectors.
 The three-year contract includes provisions for piracy suppression as well as
escort duties.  Representatives of the Federation Navy declined to discuss the
actual price of the contract.  Analysts at the Nyanza Securities Exchange
estimated the amount to be in the gigacredit range.  Ysinal udi-Quinan stock
had risen 5.625 points by the close of trading today.
 A spokesperson for the Ouroran embassy criticized the joint Aeroi-Nyanzan
effort as an "unnecessary and provocative escalation" of the recent trade
tensions in the region.

Amazonas/Ourora (1934.24 A766955-D) 12 May 3001
 House Moreira officially closed the Mendes Highport today.  The closing
coincided with opening ceremonies for the new Amazonas Highport which has been
operational for several months now.
 The Mendes Highport was constructed around the hull of the Conestoga-class
sub-light transport Chico Mendes which brought the original settlers from Earth
over five hundred years ago.  The ship served as an orbital base of operations
for the initial colonization of Amazonas.  Over the centuries the orbital
facility has grown into a sprawling shipyard complex that served as Amazonas'
primary Highport.
 The new Highport was constructed by Moreira after it determined that further
upgrades to the Mendes facility were impractical.  Moreira officials have
described the new Highport as the "centerpiece of commercial infrastructure" in
the Community.
 The Mendes facility will be stripped down and the Chico Mendes hull
refurbished in time for the sexacentennial of the settling of Amazonas.

*****

Happy Travelling,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

------------------------------

Bundle: 607
Archive-Message-Number: 7626
Date: Tue, 17 May 94 17:59:35 CDT
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Alt: Earth Colonies Sophonts: Aeroi

Gentlesophonts:

The following Sophont Brief on the Aeroi first appeared in *Melbourne
Times* #2.

The Aeroi were the first extraterrestrial race encountered by Terrans.  Aeroi
civilization is apparently not much older than Terran although the Aeroi did
achieve jump drive, with its subsequent interstellar expansion, several hundred
years prior to any Terran state.  In a sense, because it was an Aeroi ship that
first discovered a Terran settlement, the Aeroi actually 'encountered' Terrans.

Physiology: The Aeroi are descended from arboreal, air-breathing grazer stock. 
A typical Aeroi measures 1.2 meters in height and masses about 35 kilograms. 
Aeroi are able to 'stand' to a height of approximately 1.6 meters and their
'wingspan' measures nearly 2.6 meters.  Their coloring tends to be a variety of
shades from pale yellow through a deep orange.  They are hairless but their
tough skin provides good protection.  Aeroi are exceptionally agile both on the
ground, their primary environment, and in the air.  Aeroi flight capability is
limited primarily to gliding although actual 'powered' flight is possible under
certain conditions (dense atmospheres, lower gravity).  Aeroi are limited to
speeds of 20 kph on the ground but have been known to approach 100 kph in
flight.

There are two Aeroi sexes with physical differences limited to the sexual
organs.  Aeroi young are born after a gestation period of six months encased in
a hard-shelled envelope somewhat similar to the eggs of Terran avians. 
Multiple births are extremely rare.  The young are 'hatched' from this envelope
after a period of two months.  Females were originally responsible for the
envelope-stage young while males generally cared for the hatchlings.  These
traditional roles have become obsolete with the rise of technological
civilization.

Aeroi reach sexual maturity in their early twenties at which point they
generally leave their parents' care.  Aeroi bond in exclusive female-male pairs
although these pairs seldom last beyond the period required for child rearing. 
Both Aeroi females and males remain fertile into their early fifties.  Life
expectancy commonly exceeds 120 years.

Aeroi posses exceptional visual (extending into the infrared range), auditory
(extending beyond Human high-frequency ranges) and taste senses but have no
olfactory organs.  A pair of eyes are located at the front of the head, as
is the mouth.  An ear is located on both sides of the head.  Breathing
orifices are located in this region as well.  Tactile senses are somewhat
limited due to the protective nature of the epidermal layer.

Aeroi manipulative appendages, which hang from the lower portion of the
abdomen, are highly agile and posses generally higher strength than those of
Humans.  The 'wing' appendages also terminate in manipulative members although
these possess less strength.Their 'wings' are also quite agile - giving them
great maneuverability in the air despite being limited to gliding flight most
of the time.  Aeroi utilize the 'wing' appendages for ambulation and are also
quite mobile on the ground.

Aeroi speech organs are able to produce most Human sounds and both Dolphin and
Human speech is well within range of Aeroi hearing.  Much of Aeroi speech
though, occurs beyond the range of Human hearing but not of Dolphin hearing. 
This allows Aeroi to communicate to Humans if necessary but also allows
protected communication in the presence of Humans.

History: Aeroi sentience is attributed to changing environmental factors that
lead to decreasing food supplies for early Aeroi groups.  The gradual decline
in available vegetation lead to the need for increased cooperation among
far-ranging Aeroi groups in locating sources of food.  Family bonds dominated
most groups with numbers ranging from 12 to 30 individuals.  As the
environmental conditions continued to worsen, the need for manipulation of the
environment lead provided a further impetus for intellectual development.

The deteriorating environmental conditions led to increased conflict among
early Aeroi groups.  The scarce grazing areas though also served to maintain
great physical distances between groups.  Conflict became more 'strategic' in
nature and was focused on migration and grazing patterns rather than actual
confrontation between groups.  Records of violence between Aeroi groups does
not survive in the historical record.

Eventually, groups learned that conflict could be managed.  Cooperation, in the
form of mutually beneficial arrangements, became increasingly common.  Conflict
still exists but takes the form of competition in the formulation of
arrangements.

Aeroi groups grew into clan or tribal organizations but mobility remained
important.  Even though technological advancement and improved environmental
manipulation have decreased the need for mobility it remains quite important in
the Aeroi psyche.  These 'tribal' affiliations also remain quite strong.
The advent of technological civilization led to increasing mobility in the
search for resources and to competition among tribal groups.  This served as a
primary driver in the Aeroi move off-world and, with the discovery of jump
drive, into interstellar space.

The first record of Aeroi contact with Terrans is with worlds settled from the
Ehime Prefecture late in the 29th Century.  Since that time Aeroi economic
interests have expanded through most of the Colonies Sphere.  Until recently,
much of this period was characterized by intense economic conflict with the
Meren.

Psychology: The Aeroi are highly individualistic but are also strongly
influenced by tribal bonds.  Competition among tribal groups is almost
instinctual and the importance of individual contributions to this conflict is
widely recognized.  Aeroi can be ruthless to those outside their own tribal
group but are exceptionally compassionate to tribal members.

While the Aeroi seem to thrive on conflict they find violence as abhorrent. 
This is not so much a revulsion toward violence as it is a recognition of
violence as being blunt and inefficient tool.  In a sense, Aeroi see violence
as 'beneath' them.

Aeroi see conflict and competition as natural methods of providing improvement
and innovation.  The idea of cooperation in an environment free from
competition is completely alien to the Aeroi.

To a certain extent, the Aeroi see outsiders as natural.  Aeroi tribal groups
have always seen each other as outsiders.  While this has prevented a cohesive
racial attitude from developing it has provided the Aeroi with an advantage in
dealing with non-Aeroi sophonts.  They see non-Aeroi as no more 'alien' than
other Aeroi tribes.

Society: In modern society, Aeroi tribal groups are generally organized around
some sort of commercial enterprise.  These groups are often insular and because
of this highly diversified in their activities.  The Aeroi respect for the
individual leads to a great deal of tolerance for diversity within the group.

Each tribal group provides its own governmental structures.  In this sense
there is no Aeroi government per se.  Instead a variety of organizations, all
of them Aeroi, compete in a broad range of activities.  One might even say that
there is no Aeroi society, but rather a collection of Aeroi societies.

Aeroi tribal entities are almost exclusively commercial ventures.  These
entities are fierce economic competitors both among themselves and with
non-Aeroi groups.  The Aeroi seem to have some difficulty interpreting the role
of Terran governmental entities.  For this reason the boundaries between
economic and political competition are often blurred from the perspective of
Terrans.

The Aeroi distaste for violence is apparent in that Aeroi military and security
organizations are almost exclusively staffed by non-Aeroi.  In general, Aeroi
military forces tend to be small and conflicts limited.  The Aeroi prefer, and
are usually able, to resolve conflicts by non-military means.

*****

Happy Travelling,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

------------------------------

Bundle: 607
Archive-Message-Number: 7627
Date: Tue, 17 May 94 16:59:32 MST
From: scharlto@olympus.avalon.COM (Steve Charlton)
Subject: Imperial Navy/Army Organization

There have been a number of postings of late about Imperial military
structure; especially in the Regency.  I have been running CT/MT/TNE
campaigns for more than 10 years, and I have always had a problem with 
GDW's ideas on Imperial military structure.  While GDW's structure is
fairly straightforward, they forgot just how big and feudal the Imperium is
(was/will be).

In my campaigns, the main military arm of the Imperium is the Imperial Navy.
The Marines are part of the Navy, just as in the United States.  The 
Imperial Army does not normally exist, except as Army-level HQ and support
units stationed at convenient locations.  

The Navy has three levels to it; Imperial Navy, Imperial Navy Reserve and
Colonial Navy.  The IN is the regular active force.  The INR consists of
recent retirees and Depot-stored excess ships, and includes training
units and ships at various IN bases.  It would also include support ships and
large transports for Imperial Army movement. The Colonial Navy is an ad hoc
force made up of starships from the navies of Imperial member states.
Such units would tend to be mainly patrol or escort vessels; few worlds
need or can afford dreadnaughts.  Each sector has a single fleet, with one
group per subsector (each with 1 or more squadrons).  Each sector also has
one reserve fleet, which can be bolstered with Colonial forces during a
declared emergency.  These units would be organized into planetary squadrons,
or composite squadrons for worlds with only a few ships.

The Marines are the regular ground forces.  There are Fleet Marines assigned to
ships as security or drop troops, Garrison Marines assigned to guard
Imperial facilities, and Line Marines assigned as additional units.  These
forces are used for fast response, and are the ground force normally used.
If drop troops attached directly to Groups are not sufficient, the fleet has
access to Line Marine units carried in bulk transports.  In general, a 1000
ship Sector Fleet would have a full corps of Line Marines available, as well
as several Marine Landing Brigades (Drop Marine brigades) in the fleet,
and at least 1 Marine Landing Force (Drop Marine battalion) per subsector
Group.

If more ground force is needed (an extended occupation) the Imperial Army
would come into play.  Units would be activated from the armies of
Imperial member states.  They would be combined with units of compatable
Tech Level to form divisions, corps and armies under Imperial Army control.
The IA would supply high-tech command and support units, and INR transports
would carry the forces into battle.

The justification for this is largely economic.  It is expensive to maintain
a full-time army.  The Imperium has a proven need for a Navy and for quick
reaction ground forces carried by the Navy, but a full-time Army is a 
needless drain on resources.  Why not use the armies of the member worlds,
much like a feudal levy (except better trained and equipped). 

Just some thoughts... any sort of input is welcome.  I have done a lot
with deep-space stations too, so maybe I'll throw my weight into that
discussion next time.  As regards the TNE/CT controversy, I find the 
new background OK, but I would like a Regency/Imperium sourcebook 
someday.  I am fairly pleased with the rules, except for starship combat.
I'm lazy, so I like the cheesy simplicity of CT starship combat or the 
abstract comfort of High Guard.

None of this reflects the views of my employers (who would probably
like MT starship combat better anyway).

------------------------------

Bundle: 607
Archive-Message-Number: 7628
Date: Tue, 17 May 94 19:44:09 CDT
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Alt: Earth Colonies 3D Astrogation

Gentlesophonts:

Rick Blackburn <StarTrek76@aol.com> writes:

>      I read with great interest the post on the "Earth/Sirius" subsector.

>      I only have one problem. I am pnly a "reader" of Travler, et al,
> and not a player, so, I may be missing something. I do not understand your
> "Jump Destination Table" {reproduced below.}
> On the surface this would "appear to list:
>                   1. Galactic Co-ords
>                   2. Planet Name
>                   3. Starsystem
>                   4. Distance in PC
> If this is so, then column 3 does not match up with column 4 in ANY way
> whatsoever. Several different co-ords/distances are listed 
> for Procyon.

> Can you please tell be a little more about how THESE figures fit in
> with the Near Star Catalogue from 2300? {Which I accept as being accurate}.

> Your Table reproduced here:
> >Earth/Sirius Jump Destinations Table
> >Destination World Name (Allegiance)  Distance (pc)
> >1620.20  Issyk Kul/Procyon (Co)	1

[Rest of the table omitted.]

Ooops!  Guess that was a lot of information to digest at one time.  The
first problem is that the headers for my table aren't as clear as they
could be.  A better header might read like this:

Hex_Location   World_Name/Subsector_Name (Allegiance)   Distance (pc)

Thus, for example, the world Issyk Kul, located in hex 1620.20 in the
Procyon Subsector, is a member of the Commonwealth of Earth (Co) and
is one parsec away from Earth.

In the Earth Colonies campaign many subsectors are named for
their brightest star.  In this Jump Destinations Table for Earth/Sirius
(that is, the world Earth in the Sirius subsector), Procyon,
Fomalhaut, Pollux, Sirius and Vega all refer to *subsectors* rather
than to the stars themselves.  Following the Traveller convention the
*system* name is omitted and the main world name is used with the subsector
name instead.  Thus, the star names from the 2300AD Near Star List do
not appear in the world/subsector names in the Earth Colonies campaign.
For example, in the example above, the world of Issyk Kul is actually
located in the Alpha Centauri system but appears on star charts and the
like as Issyk Kul/Procyon.

The 2300AD Near Star data lists Cartesian (xyz) coordinates in lightyears
(cyr) for the star systems.  These coordinates were converted to parsecs
(pc) and overlayed onto a three-dimensional sector hex map (basically a
`stack' of 36 standard Traveller 2D sector maps to add `depth') centered
on the Sol system (Earth) located at hex 1720.19 (again the conventional
1720 sector hex location but at a `depth' of 19 pc in the `stack').

A Jump Destinations Table like this one for Earth is developed by a
world developer so that jump distances don't have to be continually
calculated for that particular world using the Cartesian formula.  These
calculations *can* be made though for any two worlds in a sector if their
hex locations are known.  For example, Issyk Kul, at hex 1620.20, is one
parsec from Earth, at hex 1720.19 as follows:

SQRT [ (16-17)^2 + (20-20)^2 + (20-19)^2 ] = SQRT [ (-1)^2 + (0)^2 + (1)^2 ]

= SQRT [ 1 + 0 + 1 ] = SQRT [2] = 1.4 which rounds to 1

Hope that makes the 3D Earth Colonies Sphere a little clearer.

Happy Travelling,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

------------------------------

Bundle: 607
Archive-Message-Number: 7629
Date: Tue, 17 May 94 20:20:38 CDT
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Shall Not Perish 17 - SW TL

Gentlesophonts:

I'd thought I'd posted this late Sunday night but it hasn't appeared on
the TML yet so I'll try again.  (Sorry, Hans.  I've been wondering why
you hadn't bothered to reply to this yet! :-)

"In argument, truth is discovered."
                 -Russian proverb

I think we're beginning to discover some truth about the Sword Worlds.

From Sunday night, Hans Rancke <rancke@diku.dk> writes:

> It seems I haven't explained my idea about the economic cycles well enough.

No, I get your point, I just don't see any `facts' that support these cycles.
What is it about the technological disparities between worlds that suggests
these cycles?  I understand that you're saying that without things cycling
up and down there ought to be no disparities - every world would be TL 15.
Why does this have to be the case?  While it's clear that technological
knowledge ought to be equivalent throughout `known space' there is nothing
to suggest that economic development is constant as well.  It might
be that lower tech worlds just haven't `grown' to higher technological
accomplishment yet - like on contemporary Earth.  Why the need to propose
these mysterious `techno-economic cycles'?

> (Remember, I also assume that a world can 
> maintain ships and equipment at least two levels above their own TL)

I'm not sure this is really relevant to our discussion but I'm not sure
I agree with this idea.  A TL 6 mechanic is going to have problems fixing
the electronic-fuel-injection in my TL 8 car just as a TL 6 computeroid
is going to have difficulties trying to replace the vacuum tubes in my PC.
A TL 4 electrician won't have a clue how to fix the CRT on my TL 5 TV.
Of course, you're going to say she can because her world was at TL 8 when
she went to trade school two decades ago.  :-)

> Ah, how difficult it is to abandon
> a well-loved theory...

See.  We've already found something in common.  :-)

> Well, I'll continue my argument as if FFW didn't exist. For the moment,
> anyway. Until I get a chance to think about it a bit.

If the 5FW counters `prove' that there are truly disparate TLs in the
Sword Worlds doesn't that lend credence to the idea that disparate TLs
are due to disparate techno-economic *development* rather than `cycles'?
And won't that, in turn, generally call for Sacnoth to be the dominant
world unless Gram is receiving outside help?

> IMO one should prefer
> the one that corresponds most closely to GDWs version.

I agree.  Someone *please* dig out those *5FW* counters!

> Now, if you could demonstrate that Sacnoth couldn't possibly loose a
> confrontation with all the other Sword Worlds then you'd have something
> much more solid.

If there is true techno-economic disparity in the Sword Worlds then Sacnoth
can dominate *economically* - like Japan does today - and it doesn't *need*
a confrontation.  (But a little `demonstration' might not hurt!)

> Actually, while I've no doubt that GDW's Sword Worlds owe their origin to
> Piper, they actualy have a lot less in common with Piper's than one might
> think. 

Really?  How so?

> I believe, however, that the GDW SW ancestors did, like Piper's SW ancestors,
> flee a lost civil war.

I just checked the *JTAS* Contact article again.  It merely describes the
original Sword Worlds settlers as `Solomani exiles'.  There is no mention
of *any* warfare.  The time is the c-400.  I'm not sure when the Interstellar
Wars occurred.

> Remember that my theory ties TLs tightly to the economy. I know it hasn't
> worked that way on Earth today, but it's the only explanation that I can
> see why nearly all worlds aren't TL 15.

Doesn't different levels of `techno-economic development' explain the
disparate TLs as well?  This *is* how it works today!  Why the need for
something different?  Maybe `techno-economic development' is really what
TL is measuring.

> As to why
> it dosen't happen in the Imperium and the Darrian Confederation:
> 	1) Maybe it does. Why is only 4 Imperial worlds in the Spinward
> 	   Marches TL 15?

Because these are the only four that have achieved that level of `techno-
ecomomic development'?

> So this seems to be the assumption that dosen't fit. Examine it. Change it
> to fit. Specifically the part of the assumption that has the individual
> Sword Worlds tied together in an 'emperor-level' feudal technocracy. Try
> to imagine the tecnocracies stopping at the planetary level.

But this isn't what *you've* proposed!  If Sacnoth is selling its high-tech
goods to all the other Sword Worlds then the technocracy can't stop at the
individual worlds because the economy doesn't!  This is the nature of a
feudal technocracy - the poltical situation is tied directly to the economic
situation.  If the economy is interstellar then political power in inter-
stellar and the center of power out to be the strongest technocracy - Sacnoth.
Unless there is outside influence like the Zhodani.  Again, quoting the *JTAS*
Contact article:

"A Confederation Council, made up of representatives from all worlds,
regulates interworld trade, handles diplomatic relations with outside powers,
and adjudicates interworld disputes."

Sounds like the Japanese *keiritsu* to me.

> How deep is that anti-Zhodani sentiment? You assume they think of Zhodani
> as a 50ties redneck thought of russians.

No, I don't.  I have no idea how deep this sentiment is.  Remember, I suggested
that this `sentiment' might not exist anywhere except in the mind of Imperial
propagandists.  Here's the quote from the *JTAS* Contact article:

"This public prejudice against psionics has been the major element in limiting
Zhodani influence in the region."

> If, that is, wars were decided by mathematical formulae. Let's not get that
> simplistic.

Well, fine, but I'm merely trying to provide some data for your 10-to-1
question.

> Lots of instances in history where the apparently certain loser
> didn't. I would have been satisfied if Gram wasn't too far behind.

Actually, with the benefit of historical observation there are very few
incidents where any `unlikely' victory can not be explained.  We share this
`historical viewpoint' as `developers' of the Sword Worlds.

> Perhaps the anti-Zhodani sentiment was strong on Sacnoth but weak on Gram
> 300 years ago.

Well, again, maybe.  Another interesting fact from the *JTAS* Contact article:
the only Psionics Institute in the Sword Worlds is on Sacnoth!  Which is
listed as a "third factor (and in may ways the most significant)" why psionics
have not been made an integral part of Sword Worlds culture because "the
omnipresent interworld rivalry reinforces the latent anti-psi prejucice
among the inhabitants (and governments) of those worlds not politically
dominated by Sacnoth."

> Nowadays they _do_ have a politically stable Confederation.

Doesn't sound like it from the above quote.

> What time in history are you talking about? Just after the 3rd FW where
> the Imperium occupied 12 of the Sword Worlds? Or after the 5th where they
> set up a puppet government of half the Confederation?

I was thinking more along the line of a `mini-pacification campaign'.

> >I doubt the Zhodani would
> >have gone to war over an Imperial invasion of the Sword Worlds 
> 1) Why?
> 2) What if the Imperium wasn't as sure as you are?

The geo-political reason is called `spheres of influence'.  Examples are
the US in Vietnam and the Soviets in Afghanistan.  The Sword Worlds are
removed from the Consulate yet are situated on the Imperial border.

> The Sword World incursions were a result of the Zhodani alliance, and had
> nothing to do with their strength relative to the Imperium.

I wasn't trying to explain the SW incursions.  I was trying to explain the
lack of an Imperial pacification campaign.

> >why hasn't the Imperium sent ". . . the [Imperial] Marines to that little
> >[subsector spinward of Glisten] and *stopped* that problem!"?
> 
> They have. They just took them home again after a while.

They haven't `stopped' it - it keeps occurring!

> Make that overran every two centuries and you're nearer the mark. This is
> actually quite important. If the Sword Worlds really bothered the Imperium

> Imperium has taken quite decisive action whenever the Sword Worlds have 
> ovestepped the line. 

I merely saw `decades' as analogous to centuries when comparing a millenia-
old empire to a two-century-old nation.  I feel the Sword Worlds *have*
been a bother and that the Imperium *hasn't* taken *decisive* action. A
pacification campaign is decisive and consistent with past Imperial actions.

> Very propably. Or perhaps it's a "Real Men don't need psionics!" thing.

This is what the *JTAS* Contact article suggests.  My suggestion is that
that entire `real man' schtick for the Sword Worlds is all just a bunch
of Imperial propaganda.  I suspect the Sword Worlders are no more 
`paternalistic, macho, vain, braggarts' than Zhodani are `mind-sucking,
inhuman totalitarians' once the veneer of Imperial propaganda is removed.

> Depends on the economic developements.

Not if the reason for Gram's leadership has been access to Zhodani aid.
In TNE one might suspect King Angus of Gram to be cherising his last cigar
and cursing his former patrons like Fidel.

> OK. So you think the Confederation is one huge Feudal Technocracy, right?

No, I think it is a bunch of planetary technocracies too.  *You* have suggested
there is a great deal of economic integration between these economies which,
in my understanding, calls for a broader interstellar technocracy as well.
In this view there are no `planetary kings'.  There are just `CEOs' that
see their influence and power spread across several worlds.  They don't have
a direct economic interest in things like diplomacy so they relegate it
to the Confederation Council.  But since economic power is political power
in a feudal technocracy then the strongest poltical power ought to be the
strongest economic power.  We both see this as Sacnoth.  You choose to see
mysterious cycles to explain Gram's leadership while I blame the Zhodani.

Who's assumptions better fit these facts?

Some more good work.

Peace,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Wed, 18 May 94 22:00:03 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #608: Msgs 7630-7640 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Wed May 18 22:00:02 EDT 1994
Reply-To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Errors-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 18 May 94 22:00:03 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #608: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 608  7630 17-May-1994 TML Admin        TML nightly: Msgs 7625-7627 V74#9 << TM
 608  7631 17-May-1994 Roger Sanger     Strephon's fate... <<  
 608  7632 17-May-1994 Roger Sanger     Norris' fate... <<  
 608  7633 17-May-1994 Roger Sanger     fasa items for sale... <<  
 608  7634 17-May-1994 Roger Sanger     Early Challenges FOR SALE... <<  
 608  7635 18-May-1994 pihlab@cbr.hhcs  TML split <<                   I N T E 
 608  7636 18-May-1994 Steven M Bonnev  Imperial Army << I agree that GDW has b
 608  7637 18-May-1994 Steven Gott      Message headers << I was on the Con-Sim
 608  7638 18-May-1994 john.bogan@asb.  DAKAAR CLASS FREIGHTER << Speaking of s
 608  7639 18-May-1994 gerald.s.willia  Re: Misc. Questions << Well, my message
 608  7640 18-May-1994 PSUAlum@aol.com  Why buy *SM*? << TML biweekly Wed May 1

------------------------------

Bundle: 608
Archive-Message-Number: 7630
Date: Tue, 17 May 94 20:30:03 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML nightly: Msgs 7625-7627 V74#9
Reply-To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)

TML nightly	Tue May 17 20:30:03 EDT 1994	Volume 74 : Issue 9

Today's topics:

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 607  7627 17-May-1994 Steve Charlton   Imperial Navy/Army Organization << Ther
 607  7625 17-May-1994 David Johnson    Alt: Earth Colonies News Service << Gen
 607  7626 17-May-1994 David Johnson    Alt: Earth Colonies Sophonts: Aeroi << 

This is a passively moderated mailing list. All messages sent to the
submission address will be distributed. The nightly digest is currently
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Submissions: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca -or- uunet!engrg.uwo.ca!traveller
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The TML is made possible by facilities provided by the University of
Western Ontario. All opinions and materials below are the responsibility
of the originator.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

Bundle: 607
Archive-Message-Number: 7627
Date: Tue, 17 May 94 16:59:32 MST
From: scharlto@olympus.avalon.COM (Steve Charlton)
Subject: Imperial Navy/Army Organization

There have been a number of postings of late about Imperial military
structure; especially in the Regency.  I have been running CT/MT/TNE
campaigns for more than 10 years, and I have always had a problem with 
GDW's ideas on Imperial military structure.  While GDW's structure is
fairly straightforward, they forgot just how big and feudal the Imperium is
(was/will be).

In my campaigns, the main military arm of the Imperium is the Imperial Navy.
The Marines are part of the Navy, just as in the United States.  The 
Imperial Army does not normally exist, except as Army-level HQ and support
units stationed at convenient locations.  

The Navy has three levels to it; Imperial Navy, Imperial Navy Reserve and
Colonial Navy.  The IN is the regular active force.  The INR consists of
recent retirees and Depot-stored excess ships, and includes training
units and ships at various IN bases.  It would also include support ships and
large transports for Imperial Army movement. The Colonial Navy is an ad hoc
force made up of starships from the navies of Imperial member states.
Such units would tend to be mainly patrol or escort vessels; few worlds
need or can afford dreadnaughts.  Each sector has a single fleet, with one
group per subsector (each with 1 or more squadrons).  Each sector also has
one reserve fleet, which can be bolstered with Colonial forces during a
declared emergency.  These units would be organized into planetary squadrons,
or composite squadrons for worlds with only a few ships.

The Marines are the regular ground forces.  There are Fleet Marines assigned to
ships as security or drop troops, Garrison Marines assigned to guard
Imperial facilities, and Line Marines assigned as additional units.  These
forces are used for fast response, and are the ground force normally used.
If drop troops attached directly to Groups are not sufficient, the fleet has
access to Line Marine units carried in bulk transports.  In general, a 1000
ship Sector Fleet would have a full corps of Line Marines available, as well
as several Marine Landing Brigades (Drop Marine brigades) in the fleet,
and at least 1 Marine Landing Force (Drop Marine battalion) per subsector
Group.

If more ground force is needed (an extended occupation) the Imperial Army
would come into play.  Units would be activated from the armies of
Imperial member states.  They would be combined with units of compatable
Tech Level to form divisions, corps and armies under Imperial Army control.
The IA would supply high-tech command and support units, and INR transports
would carry the forces into battle.

The justification for this is largely economic.  It is expensive to maintain
a full-time army.  The Imperium has a proven need for a Navy and for quick
reaction ground forces carried by the Navy, but a full-time Army is a 
needless drain on resources.  Why not use the armies of the member worlds,
much like a feudal levy (except better trained and equipped). 

Just some thoughts... any sort of input is welcome.  I have done a lot
with deep-space stations too, so maybe I'll throw my weight into that
discussion next time.  As regards the TNE/CT controversy, I find the 
new background OK, but I would like a Regency/Imperium sourcebook 
someday.  I am fairly pleased with the rules, except for starship combat.
I'm lazy, so I like the cheesy simplicity of CT starship combat or the 
abstract comfort of High Guard.

None of this reflects the views of my employers (who would probably
like MT starship combat better anyway).

- ------------------------------

Bundle: 607
Archive-Message-Number: 7625
Date: Tue, 17 May 94 17:54:39 CDT
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Alt: Earth Colonies News Service

Gentlesophonts:

The following news briefs appeared in *Melbourne Times* #2:

Melbourne Times News Service

Anokye/Pollux (1419.16 B848689-B) 21 Apr 3001
 In its official report released today, the Navy confirmed that the
unidentified ship destroyed at Epimetheus/Pollux three weeks ago by the frigate
Foch was an Aztlan Maza-class escort.
 According to the report, the Foch was conducting frontier refuelling shortly
after emerging from jump when it encountered the unidentified ship in the upper
reaches of the gas giant's atmosphere.  When it refused to respond to the
Foch's hail, the ship was fired upon and eventually destroyed.
 Initial efforts to identify the ship were hindered by the loss of the
wreckage in the giant's lower atmosphere.  The report states that the ship was
identified after an analysis of telemetry gathered by the Foch during the
engagement.
 A spokesperson for Commodore Geraldine Kolchak declined to comment on the
report, but sources close to the Commodore stated that the discovery of an
Aztlan warship in Commonwealth space was certain to lead to further escalation
of tensions in the Pollux subsector.

Dedn/Europa (2934.30 AA6A865-D) 24 Apr 3001
 In a terse communique released today, the mysterious Committee for State
Security announced that it had assumed all executive authority in the Meren
Worlds.
 Actual composition of the Committee remains unclear.  The Committee has been
rumored to be an extension of the reactionary wing of the Expansionist Clique,
which has suffered from increasing turmoil since the end of the Markets War.
 The status and location of Morrochai Gvo remains unknown.  The communique
stated that the Meren Autarch had been "relieved of its responsibilities" by
the Committee.
 In a separate statement, Ivondond Verch, leader of the Reformist Clique and a
frequent critic of the Autarch in the past, called for Morrochai's restoration
to its "appropriate and lawful position" and characterized the action of the
Committee for State Security as a "supra-legal usurpation of executive
authority".

New Canaan/Gaea (2215.10 A865999-D) 27 Apr 3001
 The New Lhasa Skystupa fell to the ground today.
 The gravitic spiritual and entertainment complex slowly descended from its
aerial position 800 meters above the city after its main gravitic generator
shut down.  A Skystupa spokesperson stressed that it had been a controlled
descent and that the Skystupa's 860,000 inhabitants were never in danger.
 The cause of the generator failure has yet to be determined.  The
spokesperson stated that Skystupa engineers hoped to have the complex airborne
again within a few days.
 The New Lhasa Skystupa is the first gravitic urban complex developed on New
Canaan.  The effect of the generator failure upon additional Skystupas
currently under construction at New Medina and New Istanbul remains unclear.

Aztlan/Procyon (0911.20 A9879A7-D) 28 Apr 3001
 The Imperial Household announced the engagement today of Crown Princess Sola.
The heir to the Adamant Throne will wed Don Arturo Kumate, an officer in the
Diplomatic Corps.
 The Crown Princess, currently serving as an auxiliary craft pilot in the
Imperial Navy, had long shown little interest in marriage.  Sources in the
Household have denied reports that the Crown Princess was pressured into the
engagement by Empress Ana and Grand Duke Guillermo.
 Don Arturo first met the Crown Princess nearly 18 months ago during a
reception held for her by the Ehime monarch at the Ehime embassy.  Don Arturo
has served as Her Majesty's ambassador to the Ehime court for the past three
years.
 The wedding, in accordance with Imperial tradition, has been scheduled to
coincide with the annual Festival of the Founders to be held later this year. 

Earth/Sirius (1720.19 A867988-D) 01 May 3001
 Earthsteward Emile Cevera opened year-long ceremonies today celebrating the
Tricentennial of the founding of the Commonwealth of Earth.
 "As we cross this threshold of our fourth century, we reach forward to the
myriad of opportunities that beckon to us," said Cevera in remarks carried live
across the globe.
 The Commonwealth Tricentennial will be celebrated in a variety of events over
the next year throughout the worlds of the Commonwealth.  The celebration will
climax with the Commonwealth Games to be held here at Earth.

Nyanza/Nyanza (1531.12 A86898A-D) 03 May 3001
 The Nyanzan Subsector factor for Ysinal udi-Quinan announced today that the
Aeroi mercantile giant had reached an agreement with the Nyanzan Navy to
provide armed escorts for YuQ shipping operations in Nyanza, Wanganui, Aquila
and Ourora subsectors.
 The three-year contract includes provisions for piracy suppression as well as
escort duties.  Representatives of the Federation Navy declined to discuss the
actual price of the contract.  Analysts at the Nyanza Securities Exchange
estimated the amount to be in the gigacredit range.  Ysinal udi-Quinan stock
had risen 5.625 points by the close of trading today.
 A spokesperson for the Ouroran embassy criticized the joint Aeroi-Nyanzan
effort as an "unnecessary and provocative escalation" of the recent trade
tensions in the region.

Amazonas/Ourora (1934.24 A766955-D) 12 May 3001
 House Moreira officially closed the Mendes Highport today.  The closing
coincided with opening ceremonies for the new Amazonas Highport which has been
operational for several months now.
 The Mendes Highport was constructed around the hull of the Conestoga-class
sub-light transport Chico Mendes which brought the original settlers from Earth
over five hundred years ago.  The ship served as an orbital base of operations
for the initial colonization of Amazonas.  Over the centuries the orbital
facility has grown into a sprawling shipyard complex that served as Amazonas'
primary Highport.
 The new Highport was constructed by Moreira after it determined that further
upgrades to the Mendes facility were impractical.  Moreira officials have
described the new Highport as the "centerpiece of commercial infrastructure" in
the Community.
 The Mendes facility will be stripped down and the Chico Mendes hull
refurbished in time for the sexacentennial of the settling of Amazonas.

*****

Happy Travelling,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

- ------------------------------

Bundle: 607
Archive-Message-Number: 7626
Date: Tue, 17 May 94 17:59:35 CDT
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Alt: Earth Colonies Sophonts: Aeroi

Gentlesophonts:

The following Sophont Brief on the Aeroi first appeared in *Melbourne
Times* #2.

The Aeroi were the first extraterrestrial race encountered by Terrans.  Aeroi
civilization is apparently not much older than Terran although the Aeroi did
achieve jump drive, with its subsequent interstellar expansion, several hundred
years prior to any Terran state.  In a sense, because it was an Aeroi ship that
first discovered a Terran settlement, the Aeroi actually 'encountered' Terrans.

Physiology: The Aeroi are descended from arboreal, air-breathing grazer stock. 
A typical Aeroi measures 1.2 meters in height and masses about 35 kilograms. 
Aeroi are able to 'stand' to a height of approximately 1.6 meters and their
'wingspan' measures nearly 2.6 meters.  Their coloring tends to be a variety of
shades from pale yellow through a deep orange.  They are hairless but their
tough skin provides good protection.  Aeroi are exceptionally agile both on the
ground, their primary environment, and in the air.  Aeroi flight capability is
limited primarily to gliding although actual 'powered' flight is possible under
certain conditions (dense atmospheres, lower gravity).  Aeroi are limited to
speeds of 20 kph on the ground but have been known to approach 100 kph in
flight.

There are two Aeroi sexes with physical differences limited to the sexual
organs.  Aeroi young are born after a gestation period of six months encased in
a hard-shelled envelope somewhat similar to the eggs of Terran avians. 
Multiple births are extremely rare.  The young are 'hatched' from this envelope
after a period of two months.  Females were originally responsible for the
envelope-stage young while males generally cared for the hatchlings.  These
traditional roles have become obsolete with the rise of technological
civilization.

Aeroi reach sexual maturity in their early twenties at which point they
generally leave their parents' care.  Aeroi bond in exclusive female-male pairs
although these pairs seldom last beyond the period required for child rearing. 
Both Aeroi females and males remain fertile into their early fifties.  Life
expectancy commonly exceeds 120 years.

Aeroi posses exceptional visual (extending into the infrared range), auditory
(extending beyond Human high-frequency ranges) and taste senses but have no
olfactory organs.  A pair of eyes are located at the front of the head, as
is the mouth.  An ear is located on both sides of the head.  Breathing
orifices are located in this region as well.  Tactile senses are somewhat
limited due to the protective nature of the epidermal layer.

Aeroi manipulative appendages, which hang from the lower portion of the
abdomen, are highly agile and posses generally higher strength than those of
Humans.  The 'wing' appendages also terminate in manipulative members although
these possess less strength.Their 'wings' are also quite agile - giving them
great maneuverability in the air despite being limited to gliding flight most
of the time.  Aeroi utilize the 'wing' appendages for ambulation and are also
quite mobile on the ground.

Aeroi speech organs are able to produce most Human sounds and both Dolphin and
Human speech is well within range of Aeroi hearing.  Much of Aeroi speech
though, occurs beyond the range of Human hearing but not of Dolphin hearing. 
This allows Aeroi to communicate to Humans if necessary but also allows
protected communication in the presence of Humans.

History: Aeroi sentience is attributed to changing environmental factors that
lead to decreasing food supplies for early Aeroi groups.  The gradual decline
in available vegetation lead to the need for increased cooperation among
far-ranging Aeroi groups in locating sources of food.  Family bonds dominated
most groups with numbers ranging from 12 to 30 individuals.  As the
environmental conditions continued to worsen, the need for manipulation of the
environment lead provided a further impetus for intellectual development.

The deteriorating environmental conditions led to increased conflict among
early Aeroi groups.  The scarce grazing areas though also served to maintain
great physical distances between groups.  Conflict became more 'strategic' in
nature and was focused on migration and grazing patterns rather than actual
confrontation between groups.  Records of violence between Aeroi groups does
not survive in the historical record.

Eventually, groups learned that conflict could be managed.  Cooperation, in the
form of mutually beneficial arrangements, became increasingly common.  Conflict
still exists but takes the form of competition in the formulation of
arrangements.

Aeroi groups grew into clan or tribal organizations but mobility remained
important.  Even though technological advancement and improved environmental
manipulation have decreased the need for mobility it remains quite important in
the Aeroi psyche.  These 'tribal' affiliations also remain quite strong.
The advent of technological civilization led to increasing mobility in the
search for resources and to competition among tribal groups.  This served as a
primary driver in the Aeroi move off-world and, with the discovery of jump
drive, into interstellar space.

The first record of Aeroi contact with Terrans is with worlds settled from the
Ehime Prefecture late in the 29th Century.  Since that time Aeroi economic
interests have expanded through most of the Colonies Sphere.  Until recently,
much of this period was characterized by intense economic conflict with the
Meren.

Psychology: The Aeroi are highly individualistic but are also strongly
influenced by tribal bonds.  Competition among tribal groups is almost
instinctual and the importance of individual contributions to this conflict is
widely recognized.  Aeroi can be ruthless to those outside their own tribal
group but are exceptionally compassionate to tribal members.

While the Aeroi seem to thrive on conflict they find violence as abhorrent. 
This is not so much a revulsion toward violence as it is a recognition of
violence as being blunt and inefficient tool.  In a sense, Aeroi see violence
as 'beneath' them.

Aeroi see conflict and competition as natural methods of providing improvement
and innovation.  The idea of cooperation in an environment free from
competition is completely alien to the Aeroi.

To a certain extent, the Aeroi see outsiders as natural.  Aeroi tribal groups
have always seen each other as outsiders.  While this has prevented a cohesive
racial attitude from developing it has provided the Aeroi with an advantage in
dealing with non-Aeroi sophonts.  They see non-Aeroi as no more 'alien' than
other Aeroi tribes.

Society: In modern society, Aeroi tribal groups are generally organized around
some sort of commercial enterprise.  These groups are often insular and because
of this highly diversified in their activities.  The Aeroi respect for the
individual leads to a great deal of tolerance for diversity within the group.

Each tribal group provides its own governmental structures.  In this sense
there is no Aeroi government per se.  Instead a variety of organizations, all
of them Aeroi, compete in a broad range of activities.  One might even say that
there is no Aeroi society, but rather a collection of Aeroi societies.

Aeroi tribal entities are almost exclusively commercial ventures.  These
entities are fierce economic competitors both among themselves and with
non-Aeroi groups.  The Aeroi seem to have some difficulty interpreting the role
of Terran governmental entities.  For this reason the boundaries between
economic and political competition are often blurred from the perspective of
Terrans.

The Aeroi distaste for violence is apparent in that Aeroi military and security
organizations are almost exclusively staffed by non-Aeroi.  In general, Aeroi
military forces tend to be small and conflicts limited.  The Aeroi prefer, and
are usually able, to resolve conflicts by non-military means.

*****

Happy Travelling,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

- ------------------------------

End of TML Nightly
******************

------------------------------

Bundle: 608
Archive-Message-Number: 7631
Date: Tue, 17 May 1994 19:45:53 -0700
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: Strephon's fate...

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Whatever happened to Strephon?  In your campaign that is.
 
Do you think Norris would have tried to send a mission into the
wilds to save his Emperor?
 
Was Strephon's world destroyed?  Or did it become a pocket empire
(and who rules it now)?  Is Strephon still alive in your campaign
(via anagathics, cold sleep, hybernation, or some other hi-tech
development)?
 
 
 
 
 
 

------------------------------

Bundle: 608
Archive-Message-Number: 7632
Date: Tue, 17 May 1994 19:46:53 -0700
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: Norris' fate...

 
 
 
 
 
 
What about Norris in the New Era?
 
Now that we are in the New Era, looking back on the life of
Norris, what is the biography of Norris in your campaign?
 
Is he still alive (anagathically) in the New Era?  Is he still in
power?  Did he pass on the torch to Avery, or to an heir of his
own?  Did he finally have children?  How many clones did he have?
 
In the interval between the Rebellion and the New Era (I'll refer
to it as THE AGE OF THE VIRUS), what were Norris' greatest acts
and achievements?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

------------------------------

Bundle: 608
Archive-Message-Number: 7633
Date: Tue, 17 May 1994 19:51:44 -0700
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: fasa items for sale...

 
 
 
 
 
For sale:
 
 
I have spares of the following hard-to-find classic Traveller
collector's items:
 
 
    ==== Ordeal by Eshaar          by J. Andrew Keith            fasa
 
    ==== Ascent to Anekthor        by J. Andrew Keith       Gamelords
 
 
The first one is set in the Far Frontiers, the second is set in
Reavers Deep.
 
Let me know if you are interested.
 
Rodge.
 

------------------------------

Bundle: 608
Archive-Message-Number: 7634
Date: Tue, 17 May 1994 19:53:55 -0700
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: Early Challenges FOR SALE...

 
 
 
 
 
I have a spare of each of the following:
 
    ==== Challenge 25 (Includes JTAS #25)
 
    ==== Challenge 26 (Includes JTAS #26)
 
    ==== Challenge 27 (Includes JTAS #27)
 
    ==== Challenge 28 (Includes JTAS #28 - last of the JTAS pull-outs)
 
    ==== Challenge 29
 
    ==== Challenge 30
 
    ==== Challenge 31
 
    ==== Challenge 32
 
    ==== Challenge 33
 
Drop me a note if you see anything you want.
 
Rodge.
 

------------------------------

Bundle: 608
Archive-Message-Number: 7635
Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 12:56:30 +1000
From: pihlab@cbr.hhcs.gov.au
Subject: TML split


                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M

                                      Date:  Sent on: 1994-May-18 12:57pm
                                      From:  Bruce Pihlamae
                                             PIHLAMAE BRUCE
                                      Dept:  Information Services
                                      Tel No:(06) 289-7056

TO:  Remote Addressee                     ( _traveller@engrg.uwo.ca )


Subject: TML split

    
    With regard to the TML split:
    
    I personally don't care either way but I thought of some alternatives 
    that might please people.
    
    This of course means work (a lot?) for James.
    
    Initiate a code to be present on each message (possible list below):
    
            TNE:  Traveller New Era specific,
            FFS:  Fire Fusion & Steel specific,
            HG:   High Guard or Trillion Credit Squadron specific,
            CT:   Classic Traveller specific,
            GDW:  stuff about releases and or erata etc,
            FLM:  Flame material about anything you hate,
            GEN:  non-specific stuff
            others to be determined
    
    Here's your work James:
    
    Each subscriber should be able to specify which labelled messages they 
    want to receive.
    
    Any messages received by the server that DON'T have a label (or 
    several labels) are rejected and returned to the sender with an 
    appropriate dirty message.
    
    
    Sounds really complicated but it would be nice.
    
    Is this possible or is my head in the clouds again?
    
    
    Bruce...        pihlab@cbr.hhcs.gov.au
    
    "The more complex the argument gets, the easier it is to refute."
    "Killing is wrong!"  -- Trent 'The Uncatchable' Castanaveras
    
    *******************************************************************
    * Bruce Pihlamae  --  Database Administration                     *
    * Commonwealth Department of Human Services and Health            *
    * Canberra, ACT, Australia                        (W) 06-289-7056 *
    *=================================================================*
    * These are my own thoughts and opinions, few that I have.        *
    *******************************************************************
    
    
    


------------------------------

Bundle: 608
Archive-Message-Number: 7636
Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 01:02:42 -0500
From: bonnevil@mermaid.micro.umn.edu (Steven M Bonneville)
Subject: Imperial Army

I agree that GDW has been somewhat inconsistent on how the Imperial
military worked.  Here's my two bits:

Steve Charlton <scharlto@olympus.avalon.COM> writes:

>In my campaigns, the main military arm of the Imperium is the Imperial Navy.
>The Marines are part of the Navy, just as in the United States.  The
>Imperial Army does not normally exist, except as Army-level HQ and support
>units stationed at convenient locations.

I disagree about the Imperial Army.  IMHO, they're a fairly important and
much under-noticed branch of the Imperial military.  The Marines may be
the shock troops and Rapid Deployment Force, but much of the day-to-day
scut work falls to the Army.  They pick up the jobs the other services
miss.  They are the "UN peace-keepers" that keep fighting on balkanized
member-worlds from getting out of hand.  They're the occupiers who help
maintain civil order in the former Solomani Sphere.  They're the planetary
Coast Guard, who perform search and rescue missions when necessary.
In areas of unrest, they're responsible for the defense of member-worlds
within the 1/10 diameter limit.  When necessary, they're the troops that
go in behind the Marines to secure the planetary foothold they've made,
and follow it up with the type of force the marines aren't meant to deliver.
If there's a big public-works project to be done, the IA Corps of Engineers
are called in.  Note that at least seven of the eleven regiments of the
Imperial Guard were IA units, with the IISS and Marines providing one
each and a special formation of Aslan another.  (Note that these IA
forces under the General Staff staged the coup that unseated Styryx in
favor of Gavin.)

The IA is supported by the powerful, high-tech worlds, although recruiting
is universal.  Like the IN, Colonial Reserves and planetary or even
national armies are permitted...as long as certain unofficial but well
understood guidelines are followed.  In fairly safe regions of the realm,
they aren't very visible.  In the Marches and in the Solomani Rim, they
are a more common sight.

Note that the IA is a joint command, as mentioned in _Mercenary_.  It
isn't just the army, but also the aerospace force and wet navy.  The
idea is that the main mission is defense of individual worlds.  Because
of thise focus, levels above the individual world command are less
important in the IA than in, say, the IN, which is interested in the
defense of entire subsectors and sectors.  Furthermore, individual
units, while loyal to the Imperium as a whole, would typically be more
closely related to their host world than an IN command is, due to the
need for coordination between planetary government and the Imperial
defense forces.

The joint command system in the IA also means that, depending on the
mission and the composition of the troops, it is equally likely that 
one would see a Vice Marshal as a Major General, for instance, in an
overall command position.  Wet navy forces would tend not to be          
deployed as freely off-world as land or air forces, of course.

In terms of inter-service rivalry, notice that some of the peacetime
IA missions are broadly similar to missions that might be undertaken  
by IISS Contact & Liaison teams.  This sort of dove-tail overlap 
seems to be characteristic of the way the Imperium operated its'
military forces.

On another note:

>I'm lazy, so I like the cheesy simplicity of CT starship combat or the
>abstract comfort of High Guard.

Cheesy!  Heck, it was great, once you got past the trigonometry.  You
could play it with a handful of index cards, a calculator, some 
mimiatures, and enough flat space.  (Oh, I suppose a tape measure and
dice would be useful too....)  Portable, quick, clean rules.
Although owners of the 1977 rules might notice that ranges seem to have
increased just a bit in the modern era. :)  At least we're now using
the metric system.

  Steve Bonneville
  <bonnevil@mermaid.micro.umn.edu>


------------------------------

Bundle: 608
Archive-Message-Number: 7637
Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 00:35:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steven Gott <sgott@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Message headers

I was on the Con-Sim list for a while and they went through this "should 
we split the list?" angst there.  The big issue was over computer 
wargames vs. classic paper and cardboard games.  Usually a person 
prefered one over the other.  Instead of splitting the list they elected 
to use voluntary message headers.  On the subject line an article about 
computers would have the mssg "COMP:" This worked pretty well.  It would 
work for the TML as well IF each message was sent individually instead of 
in bundles.  I don't know if engrg@UWO.CA has the resources to do this 
though.  I sincerely believe that splitting the list is a bad idea.  I 
have a great deal of empathy for the CT/MT crowd.  I can understand the 
very justified sense of frustration that comes from spending hundreds of 
dollars and hundreds to thousands of hours learning about Lord high 
poo-poo and the land of the nobodies only to have it all become INVALID.  
I used to be this obsessed as well.  After a while I found that it was no 
fun though.  This is supposed to be a hobby.  We are supposed to be 
enjoying ourselves.  Splitting this list splits our community.  Everybody 
loses from this because instead of banding together we become separate.  
Already these separate groups are building their sense of self by 
identifying and attacking an "OTHER".  In our community the rift is over 
CT/MT vs. TNE.  This is almost as stupid as the conflict in the Russian 
Orthodox Church about whether to use three fingers or two when making the 
sign of the cross.  TNE has a very broad vision.  CT/MT fit within the 
scope of TNE.  The equipment has changed but it isn't 1978 either.  Our 
views of science have changed.  What is possible now wasn't possible 
then.  What seemed likely then, much like flying cars from the fifties, 
has proved to be more difficult than we imagined.  

With a change in technologies comes a change in social structures and 
politics.  This is a basic premise of science fiction.  By changing the 
equipment in Traveller GDW ***HAD*** to change the third Imperium.  The 
TML has provided nearly countless examples of how the new TNE rules 
change the way things work in a traveller campaign.  This really proves 
my point.  GDW had a choice.  Either they could leave Traveller alone or 
they could change it.  They chose to change it.  Once they began to 
change it they realized that the third Imperium made much less sense than 
before so either the changes had to go or the third Imperium had to.  GDW 
chose to dump the third Imperium.  This is a fact.  It can not be 
disputed.  They have offered the Regency as a replacement and this makes 
sense because most of GDW's developement is in the Spinward Marches.  
Opening traveller to other companies had the unanticipated affect of loss 
of control for GDW.  Imagine that as the referee in your campaign your 
players could change the fundamental realities of your campaign world.  
I'm sure that GDW faced something like this and chose to reassert control 
of their campaign.  Thus we have TNE.

This has gone far afield and I apologise for its length 

Later I may continue and discuss how TNE opens new doors for SFRPG's and 
all of the "good" aspects of TNE.  Until then I wish to share my regrets 
that like any change the creation of TNE has resulted in the destruction 
of the third Imperium.  I never really like it but I used it.  I took the 
ideas in the the third Imperium and used them.  I took adventures from 
the black books and used them.  They were great adventures because they 
could stand alone from the third Imperium.  Sadly, this trend was not 
continued in MT and it is the main reason I lost interest at the time.

remember that we are all in this because we love Traveller
Steven Gott

------------------------------

Bundle: 608
Archive-Message-Number: 7638
From: john.bogan@asb.com
Date: Wed, 18 May 94 01:05:26 
Subject: DAKAAR CLASS FREIGHTER


Speaking of ship designs,

Here is the Dakaar-class freighter, which was partially described
in _The Drenslaar Quest_ by W.H. Keith published by Gamelords.

While the Dakaars operate mostly in Reavers' Deep, equivalent 
designs are likely common throughout Imperial space.


Dakkar-class freighters were built by Starstream Enterprises 
on Caledon (Tech Level 12) and were operated by Starstream, 
Dakaar Trading (a subsidiary of the Dakaar Corporation), the 
Aariskin Corporation of Ildrissar, and a number of other 
subsector- or larger sized shipping and trading concerns. 
These ships are designed primarily for surface-to-surface 
cargo transfer capability.  While they have no space dedicated to 
a ship's vehicle, most crews commonly carry an air/raft in the 
cargo hold. 


GENERAL DATA 
Displacement: 1800 tons           Hull Armor: 10 
Length: 95.7 meters               Volume: 25200 kl 
Price: MCr 532.051                Target Size: M 
Configuration: Slab AF            Tech Level: 12 
Mass (loaded/empty): 20798/8721.7

ENGINEERING DATA 
Power Plant: 1250 MW Fusion (50 MW/hit), 1 year duration 
Jump Performance: 3 (5040 kl fuel) 
G-Rating: 1 (50 MW/G), Contra-Grav Lifters (180 MW) 
G-Turns: 40 (84.8 using jump fuel), 112.5 kl of fuel each 
Maint: 998

ELECTRONICS 
Computer: 3xTL-12 Mod St Computers (0.4 MW ea.)
Commo: 30,000 km radio (1 hex; 1 MW) 
       1000 AU maser (*; 0.6 MW) 
Avionics: TL-10+ Avionics 
Sensors: Passive EMS fixed array 60,000 km (2 hexes, 0.06 MW) 
         Active EMS 30,000 km (1 hex, 11 MW)
Controls: 6xBridge Workstations, 20xOther Workstations 

ARMAMENT 
Offensive: 2xTL-12 120-Mj Laser Turret (Loc:2,3; Arcs:1,2,3; 
           3.3 MW, 1 crew ea.)
Master Fire Directors: None 

ACCOMODATIONS
Life Support: Extended (5.04 MW), Gravitic Compensators (3G; 126 MW) 
Crew: 26 (14x Engineering, 1x Electronics, 2x Maneuver, 
          2x Gunnery, 4x Maintainence, 3x Command).
Crew Accomodations: 1x Large Stateroom (captain; .001 MW) 
          13x Small Stateroom (double occupancy; .0005 MW ea.) 
Passenger Accomodations: None
Cargo: 11394.4 kl (813.8 tons), 32x Large cargo hatches
Small Craft and Launch Facilities: None
Air Locks: 18

Notes: Total fuel capacity is 9727.5 kl.  Fuel scoops can 
      collect 5040 kl/hr (ie. total fuel can be replenished 
      in 1 hour, 56 minutes).  Fuel processing plant can refine 
      up to 1200 kl/6hr.  The entire fuel load can be refined in 
      48.7 hours.

Area       Surf Hits          Internal Explosion 
1          1-2:ANT,3:AL       1-5:Elec, 6-15:Qtrs, 16-20:Hold 
2-3                                  1:LT, 2-20:Hold 
4-5        1-6:CH                1:Qtrs, 2-20:Hold 
6-7        1-8:Scoops          Hold 
8-9        1-7:CH                 Hold
10                                    Hold 
11                                  1-3:Qtrs, 4-20:Hold 
12-13                               Hold 
14-15      1-7:CH               Hold 
16-17      1-2:CH,3:AL        1-6:Eng, 7-20:Hold
18-19                                1-6:Eng, 7-20:Hold
20                                    Eng 

SYSTEMS

JD-30H          FPP-10H 
PP-25H          AG-5H
MD-1H           LS-8H
CG-4H           LSR-1H
ELS-4H          SSR-(2h)
LT-1H           CS-varies
All Others-(1h)      

Laser combat stats:
Short           Medium         Long              Ext   
4:(1/9)-27      8:(1/9)-27     16:(1/6)-20       32:(1/3)-10  


John H Bogan  



------------------------------

Bundle: 608
Archive-Message-Number: 7639
From: gsw@aloft.att.com (gerald.s.williams)
Date: Wed, 18 May 94 09:12:58 EDT
Subject: Re: Misc. Questions

Well, my message appears to have been eaten by the TML mailer
daemon.

> Imagine you are in a sealed room. How long does it take a person to die 
>     because the air gets bad - and why? Is it lack of Oxygen, or the 
>     presence of impurities?

The time depends on the size of the room, who is breathing, and
whether they are conserving their air.  Normally about 4% of
the air is converted from oxygen (O2) to carbon dioxide (CO2)
per lungful, but this may change as the ratio changes.

Normally there is 20-21% O2 in the air, humans need at least
half that to survive.

CO2 is poisonous, however.  I heard once that CO2 poisoning
would kill you before O2 deprivation would in this situation.
This may have only been under pressure, however.

There are easy ways to neutralize the CO2, however.  Divers
that use recycled air do this (supplementing with additional
O2).  There are also ways to convert it back to O2 (I think
submarines do this now).

> If the room is filled not with air, but with Oxygen only:
> - -   what atmospheric pressure should it be at to be safe? I believe that if 
>     the pressure is too high the atmosphere promotes any sort of minor 
>     spark into a serious fire/explosive hazard.

Any room filled with O2 is a fire hazard.  The O2 doesn't
actually explode, but it promotes burning of anything else
in the room.  As the pressure increases, this effect will
increase, so that more and more becomes vulnerable, but...

The real hazard is that pure O2 is deadly at ANY kind of
pressure above 1 atmosphere.  Pure O2 will allow you to
breathe at a LOWER pressure, however.

> - -   how long before a typical human unfortunate dies from bad air in this 
>     scenario.

I don't think the CO2 poisoning effect would be diminished
(it might actually be worse, since there will be more O2 to
convert).  Therefore, no longer than before.

It's a bit complicated to determine exactly how long the
unfortunate has.  Partial pressures determine if the air
is breatheable and/or poisonous.  5% CO2 at 2 atmospheres
is as poisonous as 10% CO2 at 1.  Less O2 is also needed
at higher pressures, and even 20% O2 can become poisonous
if the pressure gets high enough.

As a rough rule of thumb, you could divide the volume of
air in the room by the volume of a lungful of air.  This
is how many lungfuls would convert 4% of the air from O2
to CO2 (alter this 4% number drastically based on activity
level--perhaps 1-10%?).  At one atmosphere, the air will
be unbreatheable when the O2 drops to 10% or the CO2 rises
to its toxicity level (whatever that is).

Increasing pressure would help prevent O2 deprivation
(assuming the O2 partial pressure doesn't reach toxic
levels), but it would not reduce the CO2 poisoning effect.

,-----------------.
|Gerald S Williams|
|gsw@aloft.att.com|
`-----------------'

      _  |     ____/    _  |
     /   /    /        /   /
    /   /  ____ |     ____/
   /   /        /    /
______/  ______/  __/

 AT&T DSP tools development


------------------------------

Bundle: 608
Archive-Message-Number: 7640
From: PSUAlum@aol.com
Date: Wed, 18 May 94 10:18:49 EDT
Subject: Why buy *SM*?

TML biweekly Wed May 11 21:00:02 EDT 1994 Volume 44 : Issue 8
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: A.S.Lilly@bnr.co.uk (Andy Lilly)
> ... If you don't like the TNE background... keep running things in the
> old Imperium. Most scenarios can be adapted for CT or MT
>
> How about some constructive hints on how to convert between TNE and
> MT, particularly with regard to the character skills, etc. so that
> articles can be more generic between CT, MT and TNE. Okay, so someone
> indicated Survival Margin might help here, but us TNE-illiterates are
> unlikely to buy that if we won't buy TNE itself!

Actually Survival Margin should not be treated as Virus-infested by
CT/MT enthusiasts.  The majority of it is filled with TAS news regarding
events within the 3I (or at least the various factions) and should be of
direct use with rebellion-era campaigns.  Then there is the rules for
conversion of characters to TNE.

Another thought slowly crept into my gray matter recently.  Namely some
of the scenarios for use in the Star Vikings campaign could be used in a
rebellion era campaign.  Given the premise that as the Black War
continued the Imperial infrastructure began to break down leaving forces
of the factions with reduced assets and many of the worlds have
withdrawn from the interstellar community and may be more than a little
xenophobic.

Smash & Grab scenarios may be adapted by having forces of the factions
raid worlds for many of the same reasons RCs do: rescue prisoners,
capture  technology, overthrow gov'ts to install one that favors their
faction.  As you mentioned ideas for scenarios can come from almost
anywhere - they just need the proper interpretation.


------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Sun, 22 May 94 22:00:03 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #609: Msgs 7641-7656 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Sun May 22 22:00:03 EDT 1994
Reply-To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Errors-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 May 94 22:00:03 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #609: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 609  7641 18-May-1994 James T Perkins  Re: TML split  << pihlab@cbr.hhcs.gov.a
 609  7642 18-May-1994 "Tariq M. Rashi  Re: NPC names << The idea of the NPC sw
 609  7643 18-May-1994 Peter H. Brento  Imperial Marines << I like Steve Charlt
 609  7644 18-May-1994 TML Administrat  Re: Sunbane  << I can't reach Sunbane e
 609  7645 18-May-1994 "Susan M. Shock  RE: CT/TNE List << I don't see any inhe
 609  7646 17-May-1994 "Stuart C. Squi  Non-Humans in Traveller << One of the t
 609  7647 18-May-1994 "Tariq M. Rashi  A Few NPCS << As stated earlier, here a
 609  7648 18-May-1994 Leonard Erickso  ftp trouble <<  
 609  7649 18-May-1994 pierre-louis co  Green Virus? <<  When Andy Lilly mentio
 609  7650 18-May-1994 JohnPS1010@aol.  Hold << Could you please put me on hold
 609  7651 19-May-1994 langsl@cbr.hhcs  re: A pre-Virus/TNE list <<            
 609  7652 18-May-1994 David Johnson    All: `Imperial' Navy/Army Organization 
 609  7653 18-May-1994 Lise Charlebois  Subscribe << Am considering subscribing
 609  7654 19-May-1994 "KMCCARTHY"      Atmos. Pressure <<                     
 609  7655 19-May-1994 Thomas Potter    Virus Proff computers << Text item: Tex
 609  7656 19-May-1994 Roger Sanger     Is Glisten in the Regency in 1200? <<  

------------------------------

Bundle: 609
Archive-Message-Number: 7641
Subject: Re: TML split 
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Administrator)
Date: Wed, 18 May 94 07:30:38 PDT
From: James T Perkins <jamesp@sp-eug.com>


pihlab@cbr.hhcs.gov.au writes:
>     Initiate a code to be present on each message (possible list below):
>     
>             TNE:  Traveller New Era specific,
>             FFS:  Fire Fusion & Steel specific,
>             HG:   High Guard or Trillion Credit Squadron specific,
>             CT:   Classic Traveller specific,
>             GDW:  stuff about releases and or erata etc,
>             FLM:  Flame material about anything you hate,
>             GEN:  non-specific stuff
>             others to be determined
>     
>     Here's your work James:
>     
>     Each subscriber should be able to specify which labelled messages they 
>     want to receive.
>     
>     Any messages received by the server that DON'T have a label (or 
>     several labels) are rejected and returned to the sender with an 
>     appropriate dirty message.
>     
>     
>     Sounds really complicated but it would be nice.
>     
>     Is this possible or is my head in the clouds again?

Say, isn't this what I suggested a day or two ago?  Does anyone read TML
anymore, or is there just too much information?

James :-)

__   __/         /   /	    Internet Traveller Mailing List, Administrator
    /     /  /  /   /	   James T. Perkins in Eugene, Oregon, USA
 __/   __/__/__/ _____/   traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca

------------------------------

Bundle: 609
Archive-Message-Number: 7642
Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 10:27:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Tariq M. Rashid" <spstmr@gsusgi2.gsu.edu>
Subject: Re: NPC names



The idea of the NPC swap is great and Ill submit some of mine later today 
but one thing that can also be a challenge is coming up with original NPC 
names sometimes on the spot during a session and when preparing for it.  
To help alleviate that burden I would like to submit my names list that 
keep handy when Im a GM.  Perhaps someone has a similiar list they would 
like to share.  Note that many of these names will be familiar as they 
are taken from popular and obscure novels.  Some from the credit pages of 
well known Traveller pubs.

Natalie Norwood		Dag Formasa
Nathan Kopek		Tula Ba
Lin Po Lee		Rulon Mylook
Alex Baldwin		Sergi Chien Chu
Niman Poseen		Admiral Scolari
Nikko Imbala		Ikor Mylook
Booly			B J Eyzaguirre
Keem So			Derek Dacarassimi
Ryber Hysook		Tamara Ard
Marla Sa		Strephon Pecorin
Omar Nabarkov		Belal Hebron
Imbom Dakna		Max Economopoulos
Will Ormsby		Ulysses Stark
Jerry Dark		Don Hamrick
Robert Van Velzor	Jana Biesecker
Joel Giehl		Warren Daubenspeck
Abdul Maghib		David Starr
Bel Riose		Ammel Brodrig
Sennett Forrell		Salvor Rykin
Lathan Devers		Guy Montag
Clarisse McClellan	Noel Fugate
Lady Gemma		Hella
Danjo			Kashen Ko Je
Luk Su Jan		Lo Moro
Iwo Lyon		Hans Pritcher
Mayor Indbur		Engineer Orre
Mori Luk		Toran Bayta
Ducem Barr		Mountel Paramay
Onum Barr		Del Rey
Lord Nestor of Gerenia

And While Im at it, here are some place names I have categorized them but 
use them as you see fit.

******Planets*****
Prima		Enope		First	
Arizona		Dawn		Second
Lagrangar	Fait		Ora
Shubuta		Rachland	Aiepeia
Ames		Alexandria	Tarsus
Cochran		Home		Court

********Cities/Provinces****
Onikawa		Sol City	Fairburn
Reston		Rex		Seal Beach
Braeburn	Dulinor		Empire
Union		Alameda		Temple
Zebulon		Fate		Iffel
Jenay		Nivelle		Aiken
Jobeth		Rockland	Antheia
Ames		Americus	Atlanta
Cairo		Adskirs Landing	Nemos Landing
Strephon	Piedmont	Rach City


Hope these are useful.  My NPC submissions will come after class.

Tariq



------------------------------

Bundle: 609
Archive-Message-Number: 7643
Date: Wed, 18 May 94 09:52:28 CDT
From: Peter H. Brenton <pete@biochem.uchicago.edu>
Subject: Imperial Marines

I like Steve Charlton's Ideas on Imperial Marine/Army/Navy
organization, and want to fill it out a bit.

I've had it in mind (and still am planning to) design some of the
major components of a Marine Expeditionary Division of the
Imperium.  Here's some design considerations;

Everything this division needs must be optimised to take up the
least amount of volume.  MBTs and APC with energy weapon armament,
a focus on energy-based support weapons would be the beginning to 
prevent a huge logistical need for shells/bullets.  Infantry weapons
would be similarly designed.  Actually I would probably equip with
4mm Gauss weapons because of the low signature (compared to energy
wpns) low noise, and since 4mm gauss ammo is relatively easy to
manufacture at any industrial world, and takes up a low amount of
space per round.  (manufacture one jump-2 away-much easier to transport
than some tech-14 ACR explosive or binary propellent ammo).

Actually there is a series of books, "Until Relieved" is one of
them, where a weapon (which I think was a gaus weapon) used wire
on spools as ammo, and had a cutting/straightening tool to seperate
the wire into individual rounds.  Not a bad idea.  (could that have
been one of the series by J. Andrew Keith?  The memory fades when you
hit 27.)

Space transport should be modular.  I envision a "Rodger Young" class
Company Assault Transport which would be deployable alone, in pairs,
or in hordes as a division.  I also thought there would be just a few
"Divisional Assault Transports", Which I want to build as a battle
rider, each rider holding one battalion of either combat or support
function.  This configuration allows planetwide coverage for orbital
fire (one ship would only be able to cover a portion of the planet
with orbital fire) and sensors.  It also reduces in-system vulnerability 
(not counting the tender, of course) of the division if there are still
space-bourne defenders (there should not be).

At one point I was thinking of an artillery vehicle with four 5-barrel rotary
mass drivers.  This would allow the equivalent of a platoon of artillery in 
one vehicle.  It would also increase vulnerability since one well-fired
missile takes out a platoon of artillery.  The other problem was that the 
MDs had to be 100mm (to fire submunitions and Remote Deployed Minefields)
and this created an enormous power requirement.  They do seem possible,
however, and I intend to design them as such.  The advantages of deploying
one vehicle in place of four is still greater than the disadvantages.

Imperial Marines are equipped with Tech 15 hardware whenever practical.
This should save space, make the expeditionary force superior in technology
to the majority of opponents, and prevent the full utilization of any 
captured equipment (since the enemy cannot maintain TL15 stuff on TL12 world,
in theory).  

The Marines are a combat organization.  Other functions are handled by other 
branches whenever practical.  For example, there's a (Marine) combat engineer
battalion attached to the division, but if additional engineers are 
needed in a given situation, borrow them from the regular army.  Logistics
is handled by Navy personnel until supplies reach the ground.  I would put
Air Superiority in Navy hands, but Close Air Support (when used) with
Marine pilots.  Likewise, there should be a Marine officer directing
orbital Fire Support (although the gunners are obviously Navy).

Ok, Now my questions.  How many combat battalions in an Imp. Marine
Division?  How many companies per battalion?  Platoons per company?
Troops per platoon?  Are companies combined arms? or are platoons?
Is artillery organic to the Battalion? or the company?

Translation of above;  What does the Table of Organization and Equipment
look like for a Marine Division?  I've made some suggestions above, but am 
not familiar enough with military organization to know "what works"
and what doesn't.  What "monkey wrench" would get thrown into Marine
organization within the imperium?  Perhaps a few incompetent Noble
commanders?

Remeber that Marines are probably often deployed as companies, and should have
many of the divisional services provided at lower organizational levels
(A combat engineer squad?  I guess we could get carried away.)

Pete

------------------------------

Bundle: 609
Archive-Message-Number: 7644
Subject: Re: Sunbane 
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Administrator)
From: TML Administrator <traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca>
Date: Wed, 18 May 94 08:22:23 PDT


I can't reach Sunbane either, and have been unable to contact Dan about
it. I know it's there, but flaky, because the TML is still (sort of)
running, and it uses disk on sunbane. Let's all sit on our hands and
wait patiently.

James

__   __/         /   /	    Internet Traveller Mailing List, Administrator
    /     /  /  /   /	   James T. Perkins in Eugene, Oregon, USA
 __/   __/__/__/ _____/   traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca

------------------------------

Bundle: 609
Archive-Message-Number: 7645
Date:         Wed, 18 May 94 11:13:17 EDT
From: "Susan M. Shock" <34ZBTXQ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU>
Subject:      RE: CT/TNE List

I don't see any inherent reason why the "oldsters" had to leave the mailing
list just because they didn'tlike TNE. If they had stayed and continued to
submit ship designs, adventure ideas, designs and the like, there would still
be plenty of Classic and Mega-Traveller material here. Their choice to leave
was their choice. I still think that if everyone agreed to, we could just live
in peace with each other. For instance, I run an Imperium-based game using the
TNE rules. Ideas I might come up with that aren't strictly rules based would be
useful to anyone running in the Imperium, wouldn't they? And here's a weird
thought-is there anyone out there who LIKES the Virus-based TNE background,
but prefers to use MegaTraveller or Traveller to run it? I'd be really inter-
ested in seeing ship designs etc. for something like that. Another idea: there
are some nifty things in FF&S that aren't in High Guard. How would you go about
"porting" these things backward so you could use them in the older version?
   I do agree that the constant fighting about TNE vs. CT vs MT has probably
hurt the list. I'm willing to completely drop the subject under the following
condition:
      No more insulting remarks made about either TNE nor the people who
play it. You can say "I really don't like TNE" rather than "TNE bites and so
do you".
   I'm a naturally defensive person and it really bugs me when people slam
something I enjoy. I'll try to control that, but all I ask is that others
try to control their vehement dislike of TNE and not be insulting.
  I'd really prefer to get back to talking about Traveller. I'd rather not
see the list split, not because I'm afraid of losing my "audience" but because
I really do enjoy the diversity of subject matter and opinion that a larger
list allows for.

------------------------------

Bundle: 609
Archive-Message-Number: 7646
Date: Tue, 17 May 94 19:34:40 GMT
From: "Stuart C. Squibb" <scs@vectis.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: 
Subject: Non-Humans in Traveller


One of the things which makes SF for me is Non-Humans. Despite the number of
pre-generated non-human races in Traveller (Vargr, Droyne, Hivers, K'kree, 
Aslan) there seems to be no establised method of rolling your own. Do the 
members of the list have any hints, tips or suggestions on how to create a 
believable non-human race, for use as either PCs or NPCs? Are there any 
favourites out there from the annals of Traveller history?

P.S. Has anyone else noticed the similarities between the RCES Marines as
portrayed in Smash & Grab and the MI from Heinlein's Starship Troopers?

P.P.S. Being a relative newcomer to the list, I would value the input of
those who chose to leave the list when TNE was launched, so I vote for
the 'temporary two lists' idea. (I have CT, MT and TNE.)

Stuart.
- -- 
scs@vectis.demon.co.uk


------------------------------

Bundle: 609
Archive-Message-Number: 7647
Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 12:21:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Tariq M. Rashid" <spstmr@gsusgi2.gsu.edu>
Subject: A Few NPCS

As stated earlier, here are a few detailed NPCs from my campaign
Note to one of my PCs who is a member of this list, names have been 
scrambled in some cases from who they really are.  The stats are in GDW 
house format but common sense conversion is simple enough 
- -----------------------------------------------------------------

Ammel Brodrig			Born, Arizona Dawn  Day 187,1160

I was born in the coastal city of Alameda on Arizona Dawn where I 
grew up with my two sisters.  My parents worked in the area.  My 
father was a ParaWIG drivers and my mother a computer builder.  They 
urged me to excel in school and other activities.  I was able to get a 
Federation Scholarship to the cosmonautical Academy on Prima.  After my 
four years there, I entered the fleet.  Through hard work and 
determination I was able to climb up through the ranks and after only 14 
years in the fleet I was on the verge of my own command.  Quite an 
accomplishment.  Then it happened.  The Icarus Incident.  I was the XO of 
the NeoSol Federation Destroyer Icarus, the CO was the son of some 
Council Senator.  We were doing a routine docking  with a civilian high 
port.  When docking was imminent, the CO inexplicably vented the Heplar 
thrusters into the docking area.  The surge and heat buckled the main 
door and the plasma exhaust superheated the air in the hangar deck 
causing an oxygen flash fire the moved through the entire wing of the 
high port.  518 people died and hundreds more were injured.  In the 
ensuing investigation the CO dissappeared from sight and questions about 
him were brutally repressed.  The most mysterious being that a post 
accident med exam revieled some sort of implant? in the CO's head.  I 
never knew what to make of this.  In any event I was the only one 
available to court martial.  They had to "hang" somebody, the CO was 
nowhere to be found so they chose me.  The navy will always protect 
itself, I learned and will make you look like a complete bozo to do so.  
Some called for my execution, in the end I was discharged to the colonial 
corps where I now run a system outpost in the system of Home.  Me and six 
other sad sacks and several dumb robots.  I think that I had my fill of 
this, youre going to get screwed anyway so you might as well have fun, I 
think I'll take Belle Starr up on that offer...I always wanted my own 
High Port.

Ammel Brodrig 	UCDR-1	5 Terms
Str-6	Agl-6	Con-8	Int-A	Edu-A	Chr-6	Soc-4
Streetwise-1	Willpower-5	Leadership-2	Ships Engineering-4
Gravitics-2	Computer-2	Starship Arch-2	Slug Pistol-2
Env Suit-3	UAMA-2		Observation-3	Trauma Aid-2
Pole Arm-2	Physics-1	Pilot I/Grav-2	Zero-G-3
Astrogation-2	RCV ops-1	Admin Legal-1	Small Wtrcrft-2
Swimming-2	
				
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Noel Fugate Jr				Born 1175 
5-9-6-B-B-6  5				Union Province,Prima

Machinist-6	Electronics-6	Mechanic-6
Computer-6	Navigation-1	Env Suit-1
Streetwise-2	Marketing-2	Robotics-4

To me, a computer terminal is a paint brush, a laser cutter a chisel, a 
blank circuit is a canvas.  My head is filled with ideas.  I wish I could 
just stay in my shop and build things.  Every now and then I have to sell 
something to keep eating, Oh well...at least I have my little grav lifted 
buddy to follow me around and help me.

Noel is a crewmember of BJ Eyzaguirre's ship the "Speculator" he is the 
guy who keeps the 100 year old ship in top order and is trying to squeeze 
jump 3 out of it.  He is followed around by a little grav lifted robot 
bouyed by a helium chamber and small fans.  It serves as a comm link, 
database and companion with amusing, profound, stupid quotes at any time 
unless you tell it to SHUT UP!

Robot  0.2 KL  UCP 0.014   Simple Chassis
0.3 cm complam AV 2  Satellite positioner, TL 12 Grav. Microcomputer, ets
Move about 40 kph max.

- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

BJ Eyzaguirre					Born 1161 Day 146 in space
Str-7	Agl-6	Con-6	Int-8	Edu-5	Chr-9	Soc-6

UAMA-1		Pilot(I/G)-4	Streetwise-4	Zero-G-2
E Suit-2	Astrogation-4	Commo-3		Marketing-4
Admin/Legal-2	Survival-2	Energy Pistol-2	Language-3
Intrusion-2	Persuasion-2	Investigation-2	Research-1
Liason-1

My family has always been space faring, hell my brother and I were both 
born in space aboard the family ship, Speculator.  Ive no children but my 
brother long lost to the depths of space has two.  They are back on 
Aurigae but I swear that as soon as I make that big score, Ill retire and 
help take care of them.  Even with Noel's talents, the Speculator grows 
long in the tooth....so Im looking for that big multiMCr deal...any 
suggestions or leads you might want to pass my way for a few Cr or a cut?
Well anyway, Im off to Alameda High Port to pick up some important 
charter and to meet some guy who claims to have known my Brother, he 
wouldnt be the first...the other turned out to be mistaken.

Ref: BJ is the ultimate speculative trader.  He tools around in a 100 
year old far trader with a crew consisting of a sentient TL 14 android, a 
refugee Jonkereen and a mechanical genius.  He's looking for that last 
big score but hasnt found it yet.  After that he can buy that ranch on 
Enope.  But does he really want that ranch?  Isnt it really the thrill of 
the deal that makes his heart beat!?....

________________________________________________________________________

Jana Biesecker					Born Day 24,1170
Str-6  Agl-7  Con-7  Int-8  Edu-6 Chr-6  Soc-3 	Nemos Landing, Aurigae
Riding-2	Acrobatics-2	Whld Veh-1
Farming-3	Slug Pist-2	Cbt Engr-3
Biology-2	UAMA-2		Act/Bluff-2
Machinist-2	Intrusion-4	Observation-2
Chemistry-1	Survival-1	Streetwise-2
Glider-2

They said it must never be allowed to happen again.  But when Union of 
Senled tanks rolled across the Great Plain into Nemo, no one lifted a 
finger to help a small defenseless nation.  Sure they talked but decided 
It was easier to let Union of Senled have their way.  Maybe theyll be 
satisfied with that, right?!?  Well it was my home they razed.  My 
parents they butchered and so I had to do something about it.  When that 
command ship blew up in the harbor I watched from shore...my handiwork 
having been responsible.  They eventually figured out what happened and 
who.  I was captured and due to be shot until a raid broke me out of 
prison and I ran to Enope.  I know that the Union of Senled has agents 
here on this planet.  I also know that there is a beedling vault on 
Aurigae, I just dont know where.  In a war zone there is little 
opportunity for careful archaeological surveys...what I do know is that 
vault may contain what we need to push the Senled out of our nation, or 
in the wrong hands...ensure Union of Senled domination of Aurigae.

Ref: Jana started off as farmer and studied biology and agriculture in 
tech school.  When Senled invaded her home country of Nemo she became a 
resistance fighter(or terrorist depending on your POV) and helped to sink 
a Union of Senled ship in Nemo's Landing Harbor.  She was captured and 
imprisoned but subsequently escaped in a Nemon raid in the facility.  She 
escaped to Enope where she met Ulysses Stark where he was then a local 
Constable.  They eventually married (covertly).
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------

Salvor Rykin					Bron 70,1171
Str-8	Agl-7	Con-8	Int-8	Edu-7	Chr-5	Soc-5

Computer-4	Whld Veh-4	Mechanic-1
Slug Pist-5	Commo-2		Bike-3
Small Blade-2	UAMA-3		Willpower-2
Intrusion-3	Trauma Aid-2	Bribery-2
Astrogation-4	Language-1	Sensor-1
Env Suit-1	Tracking-2	Streetwise-4

Salvor started off as a "law enforcer" until he decided he wanted to fry 
bigger fish than petty jaywalkers or liiterers.  He wanted to go after 
the real criminals, not the ones you see on the news but the ones who 
assualt the very structure of society itself.  His right hand still 
twitches its electronic nerves when he remembers how (Name omitted for 
Security Reasons) had it cut off to teach him a lesson.  That was in the 
confederation days.  The Unified Sphere Charter put Rach into your 
jurisdiction.  The Mysterious Foundation has covertly hired you to 
investigate the so called Cyber Conspiracy which supposedly is linked to 
seperatism on Rachland and the Icarus incident..but how?  You are 
liscensed to carry your trusty Brock-10mm etc pistol anywhere, some 
strings have been pulled your dissappearence faked, your visage altered 
and you are now part of the Piedmont Investigative Service sent to Rach 
aboard a Universal Exports ship with the man known as Mr Songstrom.  What 
will some strange occurences on Rachlan reveal?  Only time and hard work 
will tell.

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thats really gotta be it for today, thats five so far, I plan to sit down 
Saturday to put in about five more.  Hopefully these NPCs will be of use 
or just interesting reading for all TMLers

Tariq









------------------------------

Bundle: 609
Archive-Message-Number: 7648
Date: Wed, 18 May 94 10:18:44 PST
From: Leonard.Erickson@f51.n105.z1.fidonet.org (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: ftp trouble

 
When I try to ftp from ftp.engrg.uwo.ca nothing happens. Finally, this week, I started to get "connect: connection timed out" messages. Before that, it'd just sit there for 5 or more minutes.

I'd say there's a definite problem.
- --  
uucp: uunet!m2xenix!puddle!51!Leonard.Erickson
Internet: Leonard.Erickson@f51.n105.z1.fidonet.org

------------------------------

Bundle: 609
Archive-Message-Number: 7649
From: pierre-louis constantin <Pierre-Louis.Constantin@DMI.USherb.CA>
Subject: Green Virus?
Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 16:33:57 -0400 (EDT)

	When Andy Lilly mentioned a 'green virus', I automatically
thoougth that it was a 'money-eating virus' (although canadian
dollars are called loonies, not greens :).  
	A 'timebomb' virus that wiped out all the electronic money
(and their backups :) in existence makes much more sense to me than a
transponder-transmitted one.  It would explain why most of the
high-tech electronic-money-rich world tumbled into chaos.

	Has somebody else thougth about this?

	Other things: I would switch to the Pre-TNE list and drop the
TML, personally.  I've just downloaded 2.3 megs of old TML mail and
after some cleaning, I'm down to about 600 k of data I actually care
about reading. :)
	Yes, I am trough whining about TNE... Say guys, how about TNE
Done Right? <ducking>

	Personally, I'm a MT fan.  I've been playing Traveller for
oh, about 10 years, but I had no access to background material for
the deluxe CT set I had.  MT had a rich, complex background... It was
a lot more interesting... So I've been trying to learn everything
about the 3rd Imperium/Rebellion era since then, getting many
headaches in the meantime :).  I wouldn't want to drop everything for
TNE. :)

------------------------------

Bundle: 609
Archive-Message-Number: 7650
From: JohnPS1010@aol.com
Date: Wed, 18 May 94 18:55:03 EDT
Subject: Hold

Could you please put me on hold for receiving TML for a while.  I will be
unable to receive for a time and don't want to fill up my message buffer.

Thank you


John Schweitzer


------------------------------

Bundle: 609
Archive-Message-Number: 7651
Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 10:05:25 +1000
From: langsl@cbr.hhcs.gov.au
Subject: re: A pre-Virus/TNE list


                  I N T E R O F F I C E   M E M O R A N D U M

                                      Date:  Sent on: 19-May-1994 10:06am
                                      From:  Alistair Langsford
                                             LANGSFORD ALISTAIR
                                      Dept:  Information Services
                                      Tel No:289 7870

TO:  Remote Addressee                     ( _traveller@engrg.uwo.ca )


Subject: re: A pre-Virus/TNE list

First up:
- ---------
Thanks to those who replied with useful tips on running out of air, and 
availability of non metallic guns. Much appreciated. I'm still interested 
in more info on this if anyone has comments to make. This is one of the 
main reasons I find TML a useful thing to subscribe to: the helpful 
suggestions of others.

Re: A second Traveller List
- ---------------------------

I would prefer it if the list didn't have to split, but can cope if it 
does. My main worry (as some other posters have expressed) is that there 
may not be enough in the way of traffic on either list to keep them going 
if the list splits. Rather than debate it though I think we are just going 
to have to try it and see. 

I do think the idea of people posting Pre-TNE material to the TML is a good 
one though. It would demonstrate:
    
    (a) the amount of actual active support the separate list would get. 
    Though admittedly only from those who are still part of the TML: it 
    wouldn't show up those who left and who might come back - but will they 
    come back anyway? Do they know about what is being proposed, and has 
    someone asked them what their view is? 
    
    However, if there is enough support amongst -current- TML membership 
    then I think it is clear that the split has a good chance of working.
    
    (b) whether people actually found the 'signal to noise' ratio still 
    poor to accept even after the amount of useful signal improves.

Cynthia writes:
<   I say pre-Virus list, because like someone else here, I like the
<   TNE rules, but despise the background.  I'd like to be able to
<   discuss Pre-Virus and alternate history backgrounds, but using TNE
<   rules,too.  Am I just whistling Dixie?  Or is there a chance of
<   this happening?

I agree. I like the new generation traveller rules. My current campaign is 
set pre_Rebellion, c 1107, but uses the new rules. 

What do people think of PRE_VIRUS rather than PRE_TNE? Would this be 
acceptable to the people who wanted PRE_TNE in the first place? For me, the 
important difference between CT, MT, and TNE is their respective 
backgrounds, much more than their rules. 

<   ...but a pre-Virus TML is pointless if nobody posts on it.  I
<   think David has a point; is anyone still interested in DISCUSSING
<   the era besides me?  I have stuff I could have posted, but I
<   sensed an underwhelming amount of interest in pre-Virus material

I'm still interested in -reading- it at least. And then maybe asking a few 
stupid questions after 8-). Please post so we can all find out what 
interest exists. 

Alistair,
langsl@cbr.hhcs.gov.au



------------------------------

Bundle: 609
Archive-Message-Number: 7652
Date: Wed, 18 May 94 19:08:49 CDT
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: All: `Imperial' Navy/Army Organization

Gentlesophonts:

Making a fine contribution to *Shall Not Perish*, our Regency sourcebook,
Steve Charlton <scharlto@olympus.avalon.COM> writes:

> I have always had a problem with 
> GDW's ideas on Imperial military structure.  While GDW's structure is
> fairly straightforward, they forgot just how big and feudal the Imperium is

Steve then goes on with an excellent explanation of a workable, sensible
military structure for both naval and ground/planetary forces.

The question I have is just how is this different from the canonical
structure?  There are a few minor discrepancies (like subsector naval forces
organized into `groups' rather than `numbered fleets') but on the whole it
seems quite compatible with `official' military organization.  Admittedly,
it's the first time I've seen the Imperial Marines divided into Fleet,
Garrison and Line units but this is mere color.  The use of Imperial Army
forces only on an as-needed basis also seems to be consistent.  The
Imperium didn't rely upon mobile Imperial Army units to protect individual
worlds but instead left that to `indigineous defense battalions' raised
by and restricted to individual worlds.  Imperial Army forces were raised
at roughly ten percent of these levels for `Imperial' use.

My own take on the problem with Imperial military structure was the idea
of `separate' planetary forces - aerospace and `wet navy' forces - that
were distinct from the `ground' planetary forces - the `army'.  Since
distinctions between land/water/air/orbital transportation disappears
at Imperial tech levels (TL 13+?) it seems to me that military organiza-
tional distinctions should `disappear' as well.  I find it hard to believe
that the Imperial Army and Marines are not equipped for combat on a 
waterworld or have to rely upon Naval or other aerospace forces for
close-air support, inter-theater transport and the like.

An Imperial Army (or Marine) unit should contain land, water, air and
orbital elements capable of dealing with combat situations in any planetary
environment.

In the Earth Colonies campaign, I've dealt with this issue by abandoning the
traditional `army' units types - infantry, cavalry, armor, etc. - for more
generic `planetary' unit types as follows:

Anti-bombardment units consist of guns, missiles, screens or other forces
  intended to counter aerial or orbital bombardment.
Bombardment units consist of missiles, airborne bombers, ortillery or other
  forces that attack from a position removed from the battlefield.
Combat Platform units consist of battlefield weapons platforms such as armor,
  air combat, ground attack, sea attack or other forces.
Patrol Platform units consist of mobile weapons platforms used for land,
  air or sea patrol.
Platform Carrier units consist of mobile forces used to introduce Combat
  Platform units directly into remote battlefields.
Transport units consist of mobile forces used to transport other units
  between bases or battlefield rear areas.
Troop units consist of battlefield troop forces such as infantry, cavalry,
  jump troops, robotic troops or other forces.

In conventional military terms, anti-aircraft batteries and ballistic
missile defense (SDI/`Star Wars') forces would be Anti-Bombardment units;
ballistic missile, air bomber and cruise missile forces would be Bombardment
units; fighter aircraft, tanks, and attack submarines would be Combat
Platform units; AWACS aircraft, reconnaissance satellites and some surface
vessels would be Patrol Platform units; aircraft carriers would be Platform
Carrier units; airlift and sealift forces would be Transport units; and
marine infantry and air cavalry forces would be Troop units.

The concept of the battalion as the basic military unit is maintained but
the idea of `battalion' is broadened to described a particular collection
of combat forces regardless of whether the `battalion' is actually a
`conventional' collection of troops, a collection of combat aircraft,
a collection of submersibles, or whatever.

> Just some thoughts... any sort of input is welcome.

Me too.

Happy Travelling,

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

------------------------------

Bundle: 609
Archive-Message-Number: 7653
Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 21:05:15 -0400
From: s479558@aix1.uottawa.CA (Lise Charlebois)
Subject: Subscribe

Am considering subscribing to the list.
How do I do this?

Lise Charlebois
s479558@aix1.uottawa.ca

------------------------------

Bundle: 609
Archive-Message-Number: 7654
Date: 19 May 1994 08:23:37 U
From: "KMCCARTHY" <KMCCARTHY@qmgate.osc.hq.nasa.gov>
Subject: Atmos. Pressure

                       Subject:                               Time:8:09 AM
  OFFICE MEMO          Atmos. Pressure                        Date:5/19/94
James T Perkins <jamesp@sp-eug.com> wrote:

>Humans are used to breathing area that is 80% N2, 20% O2. The air
>pressure they breathe it at is 14.7 lbs/in^2. The partial pressure of O2
>is about 0.20 * 14.7 lbs/in^2, or about 2.9 lbs/in^2. This is the
>theoretical minimum air pressure that humans can sustain while still
>being able to get adequate oxygen supply to their cells. The practical
>minimum air pressure, however, tends to be higher than this -- for one
>thing, altitude sickness may set in at this low a pressure (bodily
>fluids filling up the lungs). Also, pure O2 is only wise for short
>periods as it tends to oxidize the linings of one's lungs. 

A 1960's era Rand Corp. published study "Habitable Planets" covered this issue,
among others, in some detail.  It may be avaliable in large university
libraries, it was at my university.  It is recommended reading for anyone
interested in what type of planets humans could live on.  It has been over 5
years since I last checked it out and I can not recall any details but it
provides upper and lower limits of oxegen, atmos. pressure, temp etc.  

If anyone has easy access to a university library a short summary of its
conclusions would be beneficial to the mailing list.

Kevin Mc Carthy



------------------------------

Bundle: 609
Archive-Message-Number: 7655
Date: Thu, 19 May 94 09:18 EST
From: Thomas Potter <TPotter_+a_DYNAMAC-_+lThomas_Potter+r%Dynamac@mcimail.com>
Subject: Virus Proff computers




Text item: Text_1

     I have for the past year played a mixed game of T:2300ad and MT.
     Mainly allowing some of the 2300ad races and at least the stutter warp
     drive into the MT game.

       My question/suggestion is can the Pentipods (who are bio -
     technologist) create a 'biological' computer to run the new starships?
      In theroy it should be possible.  The qustion is: if one can be
     created how much volume would it consume and what amount life support
     will be required to maintain it?  Also at what point of complexity
     would the 'computer' become selfaware?  I figure without a cybiline
     interface the computer would be immune to the silicon virus.  I have
     not neen able to find anything in either 2300ad or FF&S to offer any
     clue as to how to design one of these units.  Any suggestions or ideas
     would be apprecated.


     Thomas Potter [Arlington, Va.]

        The thoughts expressed are my own.  In the event I am cought, my
     company will disavail any knowlage of me being able to think.


------------------------------

Bundle: 609
Archive-Message-Number: 7656
Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 01:19:09 -0700
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: Is Glisten in the Regency in 1200?

 
 
 
            ASLAN INVASION OF REGENCY TERRITORY
 
 
I was looking over some UWP data of the Spinward Marches
recently, and many of the worlds I thought were part of the
Regency (Rebellion Era) were marked as being controlled by the
Aslan.
 
The data in the Imperial Encyclopedia reflects this.
 
One of the worlds was Glisten!
 
I wouldn't have expected an asteroid cluster with a population of
9 BILLION and a tech-level of 15, a naval base, a scout base,
major shipyards with large Imperial Naval contracts, and a
civilization based heavily on interplanetary transportation to
fall to any but the largest conceivable Aslan Fleet!  What
happened?
 
Was there a typo?
 
Does the errata clarify this?
 
A skim through TNS (Traveller News Service) entries failed to
clear this issue up.
 
So, Attention all Regency and Rebellion History buffs!
 
MY QUESTION IS THIS:
                                     ----
                               ---------------
                        ------------------------------
               ------------------------------------------------
      -----------------------------------------------------------------
      What worlds were taken over by the Aslan invasion, and then, what
               worlds were taken back by the Regency???????
      ------------------------------------------------------------------
               ------------------------------------------------
^B                        ------------------------------
                               ---------------
                                     ----
^B
 
 
Was Glisten ever recaptured?
 
Where are the most up-to-date system allegiance dispositions to be found?
 
Rodge.
 

------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Date: Sun, 22 May 94 22:00:03 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #610: Msgs 7657-7670 
Approved: by traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin) Sun May 22 22:00:03 EDT 1994
Reply-To: traveller@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Submissions)
Errors-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca
Precedence: bulk

TML bundles come from the archives maintained by
traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin).

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 22 May 94 22:00:03 EDT
From: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Admin)
Subject: TML bundle #610: Table of Contents

BUN# =AMN= =DATE====== =FROM==========  =SUBJECT/BODY==========================
 610  7657 19-May-1994 Andy Lilly       Everything under the Sun, Apollo, PC, e
 610  7658 19-May-1994 Roger Sanger     TML Interest Survey Results: <<  
 610  7659 18-May-1994 Roger Sanger     Travellers' Digests FOR SALE <<  
 610  7660 19-May-1994 Roger Sanger     mixed signals... << Dear Whoevercares,
 610  7661 18-May-1994 Caffine Achieve  Guns and plastics << Fellow Sentients-
 610  7662 18-May-1994 Caffine Achieve  Naval Forces of the Regency. << Fellow 
 610  7663 18-May-1994 David Johnson    Admin: TML: A House Divided? 2 << Gentl
 610  7664 19-May-1994 Goldman of Chao  RE: CT/TNE List  << Susan M. Shock said
 610  7665 19-May-1994 Peter H. Brento  CT/MT vs. TNE list << Lets save bandwid
 610  7666 19-May-1994 Peter H. Brento  TNE : Mass Drivers << I asked this on t
 610  7667 19-May-1994 TML Administrat  Re: mixed signals...  << rodge@cyberspa
 610  7668 19-May-1994 CHiggin@aol.com  Fleet Strengths... << From: djohnson@ge
 610  7669 19-May-1994 Gregg Giles      TML: Just split already... <<    There'
 610  7670 19-May-1994 StarTrek76@aol.  Melbourne Times << Travelers:

------------------------------

Bundle: 610
Archive-Message-Number: 7657
Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 10:39:40 +0100
From: A.S.Lilly@bnr.co.uk (Andy Lilly)
Subject: Everything under the Sun, Apollo, PC, etc.

Hi all,

[ WARNING: IMPERIAL VIRUS HAS INVADED SUNBANE!]
Well, seems like it anyway :-)
This didn't seem to get through first time, so I'm resending. Thanks to 
Pierre (609/7649) - yes, a currency-killing virus would be devastating. I'm 
sure I've heard this one before, I'll have to see where from... a book? TML? 
Anyone know?

GREEN VIRUS

I'd just like to explore a 'green' virus (601/7543) a little further. Thanks
to Steve for his input (602/7555), I'd like to ask the following (of him and
TML as a whole):

> First, viruses tend to be *very* species specific.

My biology knowledge (at the limit) tends to zero, so I can't argue, merely
propose:
a) I used the word virus. Would any virulent form of bacteria or other
organism be more suitable as a biological warefare agent?
b) The virus could afford to be specific if it targeted the correct victim.
There might be a suitable common factor among most worlds (type or species of
livestock, crop type, human type, etc.) that would allow it to hit all worlds
hard. If not, perhaps this might explain why some worlds have survived better.
Surely some 'agent' which affected humanoids in a generic manner (e.g.
respiratory) would affect all the human species and could still be quite
lethal to Aslan and Vargr. Perhaps the Hivers don't use the same blood
oxygenation techniques that our bodies rely on. Perhaps (like Asian flu), the
virus (oops, used that word again), can cross between apparently dissimilar
species in certain cases?

> Second, if it destroyed the ecosystems of planets, the Imperial core would
> be essentially rendered uninhabitable, especially if the "virus" was
> persistent in nature.

The species-specificity probably prevents total annhilation of an ecosystem.
Assuming the 'agent' was intended as a biological weapon (rather than some
strange disease that dropped off a passing asteroid or was sent by the
ZHhhasjycgerh from a nearby hostile galaxy), the makers would not have
intended to wipe out an entire planet's flora and fauna as this would make the
world useless to them (assuming they were intending to take control of it).
On the same lines, the 'agent' would be reasonably short lived (weeks to
months) once active, otherwise the planet would again be unusable by the
'conqueror'? Of course, if the Hivers sent it, or somehow had a hand in it, 
perhaps they already have the neutralising agent and are just watching 
everyone else squirm?

> Third, unlike the computer virus, direct physical contact would be required
> to spread the virus. Fourth the rate of spread would either be slow enough
> to save outliers (like, say, the Solomani Confederation),...

Even if the 'agent' were spread by contact, it ought to be able to cover the
majority of the Imperium eventually - after all, most worlds are contacted by
starships. On major traffic routes with several hundred or thousand ships a
day passing through, landing, etc. the chances of contamination ought to be
high. If the 'agent' can be airborne, or can stick to the outside of a ship
(somehow surviving atmospheric entry, vacuum of space, solar radiation, etc.)
or anything along these lines then it could still spread widely. Of course,
if the incubation (or inactive) period of the 'agent' is too short then it
would start showing up before it had spread very far. Perhaps this was
intentional - find a potentially hostile planet, sow the seeds, leave planet
innocently and then a year later when the war has started the inhabitants
wonder why their crops/livestock/etc. have all just died.
With regard to the Solomani (and Zhodani, Aslan, Vargr, et al), I'm not sure
how bad they've been hit anyway [FACT ALERT: I don't have TNE!] and it would
only require one trader to smuggle his goods (and hence the 'agent') across
the border to a source who then carries the goods to an A-class starport,
providing a central distribution point for the 'agent' to all the surrounding
worlds.
An airborne 'green' virus certainly doesn't require physical contact to the
degree that the computer virus does (even if it were spread by data networks
and radio links).

> It might be possible to work up a plausible scenario of some sort,...

I'm trying:
a) just out of interest (knowing little about such warfare methods),
b) in case any TNE virus-haters find this more useful than the computer virus,
c) in case I can use this 'agent' on a smaller scale in other games (hell, I
ain't even had the Rebellion yet!).
The GDW virus has already taken some direct hits in all the flak that's been
thrown at it. It's still flying, because it's the official version, but I
think it's probably less plausible than a 'green' virus, especially when it
appears that some people are wondering if the computer virus is psionic, in
order to explain it's methods of contaminating low tech computers, etc.!

> ... but it would be substantially different in form than the TNE scenario.

Why? My initial thoughts were that an 'agent' would be designed to mostly
knock-out a planet (killing crops, livestock or people) without destroying its
useful factors (flora, fauna, natural resources, man-made structures). Once
discovered it could be defeated (eventually) but progress would be gradual and
even once a counter-agent were discovered, it would be difficult to distribute
to every world affected. In those areas where the 'agent' had died out
(possibly intentionally, possibly due to over-gorging itself on the available
victims - a bit like yeast dies off in brewing), people would get together
pretty quickly and set up quarantine areas. These would have to be big
because, just like the computer virus, a single infected ship or person could
bring back the virus.

Right, I've lit the fuse, let's see what pretty colours the fireworks are. Any
CONSTRUCTIVE replies (direct or to TML) would be much appreciated. I'm not
interested in long arguments on why a 'green' virus wouldn't work. Instead
replies of the "this factor would be a problem... but perhaps the virus was
engineered to get around it like this..." would be much more useful.

SHIELA-X (601/7539) - Thanks Pete. I know some players who'd love to 
play/meet her.

L'OEUL D'DIEU (601/7538) - My French knowledge is as extensive as my 
Biology. If this is God's Eye (or something) where's the Mote? Thanks Steve, 
another set of data to add to my collection.

EARTH COLONIES (603/7566, 7567) - More useful background (I don't play 
anywhere near the Solomani but the organisations, etc. will still appear in 
my games near the Spinward Marches). Keep it coming, Dave.

DEEP SPACE STATIONS - Nice discussion, especially 602/7554 and 603/7565 
(err, lost the name and Steve again, respectively). Just where does every 
tenth supply ship go after it leaves the Naval depot? It seems to jump in 
the wrong direction for any of the known naval bases... ah! Just imagine the 
embarrassment finding Zhodani naval bases in 'empty' sectors of the Spinward 
Marches, Imperial bases in the middle of the Solomani Rim, etc.

REGENCY SOURCEBOOK - Just wish I had TNE and could contribute in some 
manner. Oh well... What we need is another mailing list, say tml_beta? :-)

AND THE LATEST BIWEEKLY MAILING
Looks like lots of other messages got lost as well as mine.

BLASTER - Yummy

DEEP SPACE STATIONS - Keep talking guys

LONGBOW - Interstellar psi networks - old hat. My 3I campaign uses them 
between all Imperial subsector capitals, especially those in threatened or 
rebellious areas. Of course, the populace don't know this and it's pain of 
death to let the news leak out. Since I play a Scout Corp special agent 
(with my colleagues posing as Imperial counts and countesses) we 
occasionally are allowed to use the psi post service if we need urgent 
direct contact with the central intelligence office of the Emperor (who 
hasn't been killed yet!).

AIR AND BREATHING - Gasp... splutter... I knew I should have checked that 
air pressure gauge on my vacc suit oxygen tank!

EARTH COLONIES NEWS - Keep it coming Dave

AEROI - Remind me from whence the Aeroi originated? Was it a JTAS or are you 
the originators?

DAKAAR - Ship plans! Ship plans! What's on sunbane at the moment (rather 
than me having to search for it), what's going to be on there and do we have 
a standard drawing format yet? GIF?

NPCS - Thanks Tariq.

HIWG - Roger Myhre - can you give us details when you get the HIWG stuff on 
sunbane, so we know where to look? Thanks

ENOUGH WAFFLE

Signing off,

Andy
Commander Lilly, PITS (Political Intelligence Team, Scout)
Nothing I say or do in any way reflects the views of my very kind and
generous employers.


------------------------------

Bundle: 610
Archive-Message-Number: 7658
Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 01:14:10 -0700
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: TML Interest Survey Results:

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
              TML INTERESTS -- WHO PLAYS WHAT?
 
THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF DISCUSSION LATELY ABOUT AESTHETICS ON THE
TML, TIMIDITY INHIBITING POSTING DUE TO DOUBT ABOUT TML'ERS
INTERESTS, AND WHETHER OR NOT THERE WAS MUCH INTEREST ANYMORE
AMONGST TML'ERS IN THE CLASSIC AND REBELLION ERAS.
 
LETS CLEAR THIS UP ONCE AND FOR ALL...
 
The overwhelming response to my For Sale notices for Classic and
MegaTraveller spares indicates a high level of interest in
pre-TNE eras.
 
As for my own pushing of TNE, it might interest you to know that...
 
I have yet to begin playing TNE because I'm determined to play
all the way through the first two eras before I do.  I do however
have a deep facination with TNE, and since my gaming group has
been on haitus for the past month-and-a-half or so, I've been
posting a lot concerning the Regency circa 1200.  Well, as
circumstances would have it, (Seattlelites, take note) my gaming
sessions shall be starting up again this coming Saturday, so the
slant of my messages shall probably be returning to the Classic
Era very soon.
 
How soon we forget...
 
NOT VERY LONG AGO, BACK IN JANUARY, GUY GARNET (aka DEREK
WILDSTAR) DID A SURVEY OF TML'ERS TO SEE WHO WAS RUNNING WHAT
KIND OF CAMPAIGN (CT, MT, TNE), AND WHAT RULESETS THEY WERE
USING.  OVER 40 TRAVELLER REFEREES RESPONDED.
 
BELOW IS TML BUN 541 / MSG 6734, WHICH INCLUDES GARY'S SURVEY
RESULTS AND CONCLUSIONS.  I THINK YOU WILL FIND IT MOST
INTERESTING...
 
====================================================================
====================BUN 541 / MESSAGE #6734=========================
=====================WHO PLAYS WHAT? SURVEY=========================
==============By Gary Garnet / aka Derek Wildstar===================
=======================January 31st, 1994===========================
====================================================================
 
A (relatively) recent discussion on TML got me thinking about campaigns.
What do Traveller players and referees currently play?  So I asked that
TMLers who are currently in a campaign (as either players or referees) to
send me some e-mail saying which rules and what campaign background you are
using.
 
I got a total of 42 responses, describing 52 campaigns (two people were
involved in three campaigns at once, and six were involved in two campaigns
at once).  Several people described campaigns which had just ended (finished
and unlikeley to continue) or ones that they *would* run if an opportunity
presented itself - I didn't count either of these cases.
 
I can draw some interesting observations from the results.  First of all, 42
responses is a statistically significant sample of the TML population.
While I have no way of knowing if the sample is random or not (the sample
is those people who responded to my survey), there is also no reason to
believe that it is *not* representative of the TML as a whole.
 
I'm on more shaky ground when I try to extrapolate the results on TML to the
game-buying population as a whole.  I would suggest that TML is representative
of the older segment of the game market (college students and young adults),
while it virtually ignores the younger segment of the market (high-school-age
buyers).
 
 
SUMMARY:
 
The envelope, please:
 
The rule set with the most campaigns is _TRAVELLER: THE NEW ERA, with 50% of
the vote, and more than twice the number of the closest runner-up.
 
The background with the most campaigns is CLASSIC THIRD IMPERIUM, with 48%
of the vote, and slighly less than twice the number of the closest runner-up.
 
 
RULES:
 
    Rank    Title               Percent
 
    #1  Traveller: The New Era      50%
    #2  MegaTraveller               21%
    #3  "Classic" Traveller         19%
    #4  2300AD                       6%
    #5  GURPS                        4%
 
I was suprised to see MegaTraveller get more votes than Classic Traveller,
although the result is quite close (one vote!).  From TML traffic, I would
have expected it to score significantly higher.
 
 
CAMPAIGNS:
 
    Rank    Era or Background       Percent (*)
 
    #1  "Classic" Third Imperium      48%
    #2  "New Era" Campaigns           27%
    #3  Rebellion                     12%
    #4  Other                         10%
    #5  2300AD                         4%
 
(*) Does not sum to 100% due to rounding.
 
This result was suprising, particularly in light of the above.  I would have
expected that the New Era campaign background would have been more popular
with New Era purchasers, but only a small majority (54%) of those who use
T:TNE play in the official T:TNE universe.
 
 
RAW DATA COUNTS:
 
Responses:  42
Campaigns:  52
                         ----- Campaign Settings ------------
 
                       3rd   Rebel   New   Other   2300   TOTAL
Rules Used            Imper          Era            AD
 
Classic Traveller        9     --     --      1     --     10
MegaTraveller            6      3     --      2     --     11
Traveller: The New Era   9      3     14     --     --     26
GURPS                    1     --     --     --      1      2
2300AD                  --     --     --      2      1      3
 
TOTALS                  25      6     14      5      2     52
 
What's interesting here is the depth of support for the "Classic" Third
Imperium.  No matter which rules set you are talking about, it seems that
there is a significant percentage of those people playing in a 3rd Imperial
background.  It would be interesting to compare sales to date of T:TNE with
total sales of Classic Traveller and MegaTraveller, I wonder if it
correlates with the numbers of campaigns currently being played?
 
 
CONCLUSIONS:
 
I note that the largest single segment of the Traveller campaign "space" is
the T:TNE rules and the "official" Post-Collapse background.  But this
is internally fractured, and (for example) RCES or Star Viking materials may
be of limited utility to people who are running a Pocket Empire or Regency
campaign.  These "New Era" campaigns also represent slightly less than 27%
of the Traveller campaigns currently being played.  While there's no larger
single rules/setting combination, there should be a way to reach a broader
part of the Traveller players.
 
If it were up to me, I'd certainly put some effort into a "Classic" Third
Imperium campaign supplement.  Potentially, such a supplement could be
impetus to cause new sales of the T:TNE rules, be "converting" people who at
present see no advantage to changing rules systems.
 
Again, IMHO (In My Humble Opinion) there's not a whole lot of point to the
other segments of the market.  There's no effective way to write for the
"other" segment - FF&S comes about as close as you can get to targetting this
population with it's alternative technology rules.  The Rebellion represents
a small market (11.5%), and in addition, "Third Imperium" materials may
still be useful in a Rebellion-era campaign.
 
The numbers for 2300AD may not be reliable.  TML is composed primarliy of
Traveller players, and discussion doesn't usually apply very well to 2300AD
topics; therefore the game and it's background may be significantly
under-represented in the survey.
 
 
NOTES:
 
"Traveller: The New Era" includes two rule sets: Traveller: The New Era and
Deluxe Traveller: The New Era (referred to elsewhere as T:TNE and DT:TNE,
respectively).
 
"MegaTraveller" is just that.
 
"Classic Traveller" is a number of rules sets and options: Traveller (the
original boxed set, Books 1-3), Deluxe Traveller, The Traveller Book, and
Starter Traveller.  Any or all of these rules, in combination with Books
4-8, Striker, and/or the DGP Task System (described extensively in The
Travellers' Digest prior to the publication of MegaTraveller) - these all
were aggregated under "Classic" Traveller, because they were effectively the
same game.
 
"2300AD" includes Traveller: 2300 and the revised edition, 2300AD.  No
respondents reported that they are using the original (Traveller: 2300)
edition.
 
"GURPS" is, of course, a Steve Jackson Games product; it was included
because I have heard considerable anecdotal evidence that it is a popular
choice for people who don't consider Traveller a viable game system, but
want to continue playing in a Traveller-like setting.  It is aparrently not
as popuar as word of mouth would have it.
 
The definitions of the campaign backgrounds are or course more subjective.
In general, I went with whatever label the respondent chose for his or her
campaign.  In a few cases it was a tough call, but I put the response in the
category that seemed to fit best.
 
"Classic Third Imperium" campaigns are those set in or around the
Pre-Rebellion Third Imperium.  Some referees indicated that they may implement
the Rebellion in their campaigns.  Just like hypothetical or future campaigns,
I categorized campaigns based on what is happening *now*, and not on
future plans which may or may not be realized.
 
"New Era Campaigns" are those set in a Post-Crash universe, whether it be
the official RCES and Star Viking setting, or referee-developed Pocket
Empire, Free Trader or even Regency campaigns.  I would like to provide a
breakdown of the different types, but in many cases there isn't enough
detail in the responses to say for sure which category is applicable.
 
"Rebellion" campaigns are those set anywhere in Imperial space in any time
after the assasination of Strephon to the Crash.
 
"Other" campaigns are those in original referee-generated universes, or
universes modified beyond recognition.
 
"2300AD" campaigns are those that use the Traveller: 2300 or 2300AD campaign
settings.  There don't seem to be many of these around anymore.
 
 
If anyone has additional questions about this, send me some E-mail and I
will be happy to answer questions about this survey.
 
 
Guy Garnett
 
wildstar@quark.qrc.com
- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In the Far Future
 
============================================================================
===========================END OF MESSAGE #6734============================
============================================================================
 
So you see, there still is a lot of interest in the Classic and
Rebellion Eras.  Unless these refs have all changed over in the
past 4 months.  Confirmations, anyone?
 
I hope I've helped to distinguish all doubt.
 
As for what guidelines there are for discussion on the TML, the
only restriction in TML's charter is that it be at least vaguely
related to Traveller!
 
Don't be timid, don't be shy.  Get your favorite subjects
flowing!  Whether it be CT, MT, or TNE, for that's what the TML
is all about:  "Traveller, in all of its forms."
 
The mouse that roared,
Rodge.

------------------------------

Bundle: 610
Archive-Message-Number: 7659
Date: Wed, 18 May 1994 23:54:24 -0700
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: Travellers' Digests FOR SALE

 
 
 
 
I still have spares of the following for sale:
 
    ==== Travellers' Digest #6         Digest Group Publications
 
    ==== Travellers' Digest #7         Digest Group Publications
 
    ==== Travellers' Digest #15        Digest Group Publications
 
    ==== Travellers' Digest #16        Digest Group Publications
 
    ==== Travellers' Digest #17        Digest Group Publications
 
    ==== Travellers' Digest #21        Digest Group Publications
 
    ==== MegaTraveller Journal #2      Digest Group Publications
 
 
Rodge.

------------------------------

Bundle: 610
Archive-Message-Number: 7660
Date: Thu, 19 May 1994 00:03:54 -0700
From: rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger)
Subject: mixed signals...



Dear Whoevercares,

What does "signal-to-noise ratio" mean, anyways?

rodge

------------------------------

Bundle: 610
Archive-Message-Number: 7661
Date: Wed, 18 May 94 23:23:24 PDT
From: Caffine Achiever! <fok@scf.usc.edu>
Subject: Guns and plastics

Fellow Sentients-

Here's another note that got munched by the hungery hungery Sunbane.

langsl@cbr.hhcs.gov.au writes:
>Subject: Misc. Questions

>All I need is the air that I breathe...
>- ---------------------------------------

>One of the hazards of space travel is going to be running out of breathable
>    air. When considering a particular 'scene' for a scenario I was
>    planning, I realised I had no good idea of how long it takes a person
>    to use up the available air in a sealed room. So, some questions for
>    the list.

>Imagine you are in a sealed room. How long does it take a person to die
>    because the air gets bad - and why? Is it lack of Oxygen, or the
>    presence of impurities?

Found this in my Mech Eng. Handbook so I ought to be accurate:

**** WARNING: MILDLY TECHNICAL DISCUSSION FOLLOWS!!! ****

A average person consumes 0.83 kg of oxygen and produce 1.00 kg of CO2 per day
for a give volume of air at 1 atmosphere and 25 degree C come to something
like this:
	7.776 * Volume in cubic meters = hours of Oxygen for 1 person

However I am unaware of the concentration of CO2 would be toxic to human in a
sealed enviroment so this would be a ultimate limitation.  Also these value 
are for someone who's awake so it can be increase if these folk were asleep or
resting.

>If the room is filled not with air, but with Oxygen only:
>- -   what atmospheric pressure should it be at to be safe? I believe that if
>    the pressure is too high the atmosphere promotes any sort of minor
>    spark into a serious fire/explosive hazard.
>- -   how long before a typical human unfortunate dies from bad air in this
>    scenario.

The best example of this would be the Apollo 1 tragedy.  The crew capsule at
that time used a pure oxygen supply which ultimate killed the crew when it
caught on fire(fuel was in the cabin material).  I would rate
the odds of a fire a MUCH greater risk then running out of O2.  Assume this
scenario is played out in the presence of operating device (electrical/optical
/or mechanical) I would try the following:

		To determine if a oxygen fire starts:
			Average: Pressure in atmoshpere + modifiers

			modifiers
			+1 if mechanical device present
			+1 if optical/electronic device present
			+2 if High speed mechanical device present
			+3 if High power electric device present
			+5 if Anything sparks!

Determining on the nature of the material the fire could be a glowing amber
(low level of reactant or slow burning type) or an explodsion that engulfs the
entire room...  Makes for short adventures though....:(


>Some questions on firearms...
>- -------------------------------

> ..   At what tech level can you build guns out of non metallic materials?
> ..   What sort of non metallic materials are possible - plastics, carbon
>    fibre, or what?

The Glock series pistol and the Steyr series rifles are both examples of
existing guns with frame built of plastic.  However the receiver and barrel
are both made of traditional metallic materials.  So late TL-8 is when I would
expect them.

In order to make the barrel and receiver out of non metallic would be
diffcult.  What is need are high temperature, high strength, and high wear
resistant materials.  So far none of the non-metallic materials exibit all of
these qualities.  If the goal is to pass through airport type metal detector
then you could use metal composite made of non-ferrous (i.e. iron) materials.
Materials like Carbon Titanium composite is an example.  But don't expect to
see these until about TL-10

> ..   At what tech level can you build caseless ammo and weapons to use it?
>    And when does the result become as practical as weapons using cased
>    ammo?

In FF&S it states that any non-ETC rounds after TL-10 are caseless.  As to
when it becomes practical it depends on your definition of 'practical'.  If
the concern is 'cook-off' that pretty much been solved.  If the conern is
reloading you're out of luck.  In my campaign I allow players to make their
own ammunition (within reason as to type) if they possess a ammunition mould
and press set...think of it as an injection moulding machine for ammunitions.
However it's a ship mounted device...definitely not man-portable.

Also as a side note: use of caseless ammo allows receivers to be designed
without the normal ejection cycle...thus allow a potentially higher cyclic
rate of fire.


------------------------------

Bundle: 610
Archive-Message-Number: 7662
Date: Wed, 18 May 94 23:05:34 PDT
From: Caffine Achiever! <fok@scf.usc.edu>
Subject: Naval Forces of the Regency.

Fellow Sentient-

Well my earlier submission apparently got eaten up by Sunbane, so
hheeeerrrreee we go again!

djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson) writes:
Subject: Shall Not Perish 16 - Regency Navy

[Regency Fleet list omitted...along w/some other stuff]

Just a few comments on the list...

Looking back at my MT map of the Spinward Marches.  Isn't all of Glisten
subsector within the area of Aslan Conquest?  Not to mention about a quarter
of Trin's Veil Subsector (spin-rim ward)?  Assuming the conquest area
would narrow as it reached deeper into Imperial territory, I dare to
assume that Pax Rulin, Gazulin, Sindal, and Tobia would've been overran as
well.  (Also see Imperial map in Survival Margin, pg 98)

I would suggest that the 100th, 201 to 204th fleet be either deleted
(persumed destoryed during the invasion) or reconsolidated into a new
fleet due to heavy losses. (probably incorporated into the most senior
of the five fleets)  I don't know if 'displaced' is such a good description
of what happened to fleets from conqured areas.  It seem unlikely that
these fleets would withdraw and let their keep be overrunned unless they've
taken significant losses.

However, If the Aslan Ihati and the Regency are at peace in the New Era,
these fleets could be re-established with Aslan Ships.

Also about 1/2 to 2/3 of Aramis Subsector was overrun by the Vargr
Invasions.  I would imagine the 214th also took a beating before this was
allowed to happen.  If the terrority was not retaken by the time of the
New Era the 214th would probably still exist but expect it to have shiny new
TL-16 ships and performing quite aggressive patrols along the frontiers.

The 193rd fleet would be tasked with the job of keeping the Swordworlders
in line (punitive strikes/aggressive patrols/showing the Regency banner).

Given the proximity of 43rd fleet to the area of the Aslan conquest, I
would expect the 18th (Lanth) fleet be re-delopyed to help cover that
subsector's border with the Swordworlds.

Considering the central location of the 73rd (Mora) and 23rd (Rhylanor)
Fleets, these would probably be the original core of the Patro.  Expect
to find large number of high jump performance battle squadrons here.

The same would go for the Deneb Fleets.  I don't have a map of the Sector
so I'll leave it to other to ponder their fates.  However the Reft fleets
are probably gone.  Dulinor wouldn't let go of 188 perfectly good fighting
ships so nearby.

- -Ed

p.s. Great listing.

p.p.s. BTW I beleive the Deneb 212th (Lamas) should be 213th.  Still 
conflict with the Regina fleet though.

------------------------------

Bundle: 610
Archive-Message-Number: 7663
Date: Wed, 18 May 94 22:25:26 CDT
From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)
Subject: Admin: TML: A House Divided? 2

Gentlesophonts:

I'm reading a *whole* lot more on the TML about `to split or not split'
than I am any of those mythical gigabytes of pre-TNE creativty that's
supposed to be holed-up out there on the 'Net somewhere and it's getting
awfully tiresome.

Talk about a `low-signal-to-noise ratio'!  How about a pre-TML-split list?

David Johnson
Houston, Texas, USA

P.S. Note my subject header.

P.P.S.  It's clear there have been some recent technical difficulties with
  the TML daemon.  I've yet to receive Msgs 7592-7624 (Vol. 74, #8) from
  Tuesday night.  Since the ftp site is also down, will someone who did get
  this bundle please send me a copy?  Thanks.

P.P.P.S. Ooops!  Now I'll probably get 150 copies!  :-)  How's this?  Will
  someone who's last name begins with "J" please send me a copy?  Thanks.

------------------------------

Bundle: 610
Archive-Message-Number: 7664
Subject: RE: CT/TNE List 
Date: Thu, 19 May 94 9:34:27 CDT
From: goldman@orac.cray.com (Goldman of Chaos -- postmaster CRI-US)
Reply-To: goldman@orac.cray.com

Susan M. Shock said the following:
> I don't see any inherent reason why the "oldsters" had to leave the mailing
> list just because they didn'tlike TNE. 

Signal to noise ratio.  TNE != Traveller.  The game systems are very
different.  The flavor of the games is really different.  If I wanted
realism, I'd join the army.  I'll stop ranting now.

> I'm willing to completely drop the subject under the following condition:

>       No more insulting remarks made about either TNE nor the people who
> play it. You can say "I really don't like TNE" rather than "TNE bites and so
> do you".

This seems to be a common problem with large groups.  Look at the
Classic Trek vs. Next Generation vs. DS-9 fights.  Look at the 
DS-9 vs.  Babylon-5 fights.  Look at the rec.games.mecha vs. the
sci.military folks fight on the B-5 newsgroup.  Most of the fights 
are silly. 

I will admit that the rec.games.mecha vs. the sci.military folks fight
is fun to watch.  The giant robot fans are basing their arguments on
game rules while the sci.military folks are talking about real world
experiences.  Weird.  Catch it on the Babylon-5 newsgroup.

>   I'd really prefer to get back to talking about Traveller. I'd rather not
> see the list split, not because I'm afraid of losing my "audience" but because
> I really do enjoy the diversity of subject matter and opinion that a larger
> list allows for.

I'd like to see the list split.  That way if I have a busy day I can
save the TNE postings for another time.  Also then I can discuss the
old adventures without someone bringing up the GDW-virus.

Matt

- -- 
Matthew Goldman  E-mail: goldman@orac.cray.com Work: (612) 683-3061

My day today? Nothing major, just Xenon base gone, Scorpio gone, 
Tarrant dead, Tarrant alive and then I found out Blake sold us out.

------------------------------

Bundle: 610
Archive-Message-Number: 7665
Date: Thu, 19 May 94 09:46:25 CDT
From: Peter H. Brenton <pete@biochem.uchicago.edu>
Subject: CT/MT vs. TNE list


Lets save bandwidth, shall we?

1.) I support the est. of a seperate CT/MT list

2.) I will continue to sub both lists.

3.) Those now departed aren't the ONLY ones who can design vehicles!  Perhaps
more of us should take a hand in that activity.

4.) Right now my biggest "signal-to-noise" problem puts CT/MT vs. TNE
discussions squarely in the "noise" category.

Thank you for your attention, we now return to your regularly scheduled
mailing list.

Pete


------------------------------

Bundle: 610
Archive-Message-Number: 7666
Date: Thu, 19 May 94 09:46:56 CDT
From: Peter H. Brenton <pete@biochem.uchicago.edu>
Subject: TNE : Mass Drivers

I asked this on the GDW-Beta list without success, 

Has anyone found a "fix" for the Mass Driver design sequence in FF&S?
I cannot come up with reasonable results using the design sequence as is. 
I have my own fix, but I would like to see someone else's since I am far 
from a ballistics expert!

Of course, I have not yet resorted to the "fix" of going back to MT/CT.

BTW, My copy of errata for FF&S shows no correction to this section.  Does
someone else have other errata with that section fixed?

Thanks,

Pete


------------------------------

Bundle: 610
Archive-Message-Number: 7667
Subject: Re: mixed signals... 
Reply-To: traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca (TML Administrator)
From: TML Administrator <traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca>
Date: Thu, 19 May 94 08:07:03 PDT


rodge@cyberspace.com (Roger Sanger) writes:
> What does "signal-to-noise ratio" mean, anyways?

"When used in reference to Usenet activity, 'signal-to-noise ratio'
describes the relation between amount of actual information in a
discussion, compared to their quantity. More often than not, there's
substantial activity in a newsgroup, but a very small number of those
articles actually contain anything useful."

	-Brendan P. Kehoe, _Zen & the Art of Internet, A Beginner's
	Guide to the Internet_, January 1992, p. 88.

James

__   __/         /   /	    Internet Traveller Mailing List, Administrator
    /     /  /  /   /	   James T. Perkins in Eugene, Oregon, USA
 __/   __/__/__/ _____/   traveller-request@engrg.uwo.ca

------------------------------

Bundle: 610
Archive-Message-Number: 7668
From: CHiggin@aol.com
Date: Thu, 19 May 94 12:00:06 EDT
Subject: Fleet Strengths...

From: djohnson@geds01.jsc.nasa.gov (David Johnson)

>There are no clear rules (with the exception of possible *Trillion Credit
>Squadron*, which I don't have) tying naval forces to any sort of UWP data.
>Based upon the `1000 ships per sector' mentioned in the *Rebellion
>Sourcebook* we get an `average' of 62.5 ships per subsector.  Based upon the

What we get from TCS is an annual naval budget, based on UWP, and 
shipyard capacity, based on starport type and UWP (specifically, 
population).  I don't have TCS handy right now; Hans, Ken, someone 
care to fill in the numbers?

>Thus, the entire Confederate Navy consists of 42 ships.  The 
>Confederate Army consists of something around seven armies.  These
>figures seem a little low

A LOT low, unless you are talking about capital ships only.  I might 
believe that the Sword Worlds has only 42 active-duty Battleships, but
given the naval budgets and yard capacities of even Tizon or Sting 
(let alone Narsil - ohmigawd!), I cannot believe that the Sword Worlds
has only 42 total battleships, cruisers, carriers and escorts.  Sting
alone should have that many.

Remember, the Confederation has been in the habit of taking on the 
Imperium; I suspect they run a much larger navy in proportion to their 
population than the Imperium does.  Compared to the Navies of 
independent single worlds, the Imperium has an incredibly low (factor 
of 100 or more) naval strength in proportion to its population (based 
on my experience playing TCS).  


From: Rob Dean <robdean@access.digex.net>

>However, we do know that "deep meson gun sites" are the preferred 
>method of ground-based planetary defense, and that these are
>supplemented by ground-based missiles and lasers.  I agree that these
>devices do not show up in 5FW, which I _do_ have in front of me as I
>type.

I know we had a long-running thread about the pros and cons of deep 
meson gun sites a few years back, and I don't intend to resurrect that 
thread, BUT-- experience playing TCS has shown one not-so-minor defect 
of those "deep meson gun sites" that Impy planets are so fond of:  
they are shorter ranged than missiles.  A fleet can stand off and 
bombard your starport, industries, surface installations and troops 
out of existance without your meson guns being able to reach it.  

>Regina has only 10 SDBs, according to the 5FW map.  However, the 
>numbers of boats are strongly dependent on population, and Regina is 
>not a high-population

I assume that the SDBs mentioned in FFW are more like Mora's 
multi-hundred thousand ton planetoid monitor than like those 200-ton 
fighters-on-steroids that are listed as SDBs in the various Traveller 
books.  I would be hard put to imagine that a world with Regina's yard
capacity and budget was restricted to 10 overgrown fighters, or that 
10 oversized fighters would pose a serious threat to an invading 
fleet.

>This reminds me--someone posted a few weeks ago that they didn't 
>think that the Imperium allowed multi-planet governmental bodies.  Go
>back and check Adventure 7:  Broadsword, for an example of a world
>(Garda Vilis) ruled from the neighboring world (Vilis).  Also, there
>are quite a few type 6 governments in the Spinward Marches.  I play
>that _some_ of these may be under direct

This is a contradiction that has been around since Classic Traveller 
and never been explained.  Several places it has been explicitly 
stated (no, I don't have it in front of me now) that the Imperium 
does not allow multi-stellar member nations.  I believe it was 
mentioned in one of the Solomani supplements, to contrast it with the 
Solomani Confederation which was made up of multi-stellar member 
nations.  Yet, we have always had those Type 6 governments, some of 
which were described as having Imperial military governors (like 
Terra), most of which are described as colonies of some neighboring 
system. Go figure.

                        -- Cynthia Higginbotham


    "Q:  What is the difference between the BATF and the Gestapo?"
    "A:  BATF agents speak English."




------------------------------

Bundle: 610
Archive-Message-Number: 7669
Date: Thu, 19 May 94 08:07:51 PST
From: so!ggiles@efn.org (Gregg Giles)
Subject: TML: Just split already...

   There's too much debate on something irrelevant to the purpose of this
mailing list. Will those interested in forming a new mailing list please do
so, and stop clogging up my hard disk with this strung-out debate?
   It's gotten to the point that I'm ready to drop TML because there seems
to be very little useful information in it. Please, can we get back to
Traveller? Thank you.


- --
*******************************************************************************
Gregg Giles          Internet: so!ggiles@efn.org        FidoNet: sysop>1:152/18
Sensory Overload (503/484-1281, USR HST DS): Anime, VR, Techno, Digital Highway

     "I program my home computer, lead myself into the future." -Kraftwerk   
*******************************************************************************

------------------------------

Bundle: 610
Archive-Message-Number: 7670
From: StarTrek76@aol.com
Date: Thu, 19 May 94 12:13:11 EDT
Subject: Melbourne Times

Travelers:
	Although I am not a "player" of Traveler, CT, etc,etc. I
am an advid READER of the fiction generated as a spinoff. Part of 
this is the rich backround data that supports the Traveler 
Universe.
	Recently, David Johnson, whoes work we have all enjoyed 
here sent me a copy of his group's publication, THE MELBOURNE 
TIMES. This publication is something like the old JTAS, with a 
multi-page "News Service" entry, great illustrations, and several
feature articles.
 	The News Service is based on Dave's "Earth Colonies" 
campaign, and is extreamly dense in information content. I read it
through the first time and found that I had to go back and re-read
it to get the maximum effect. THAT'S how packed with info it was.
I finally sat down and began taking notes, it was that good! I got
Issue #3 as a sample, I do not know where this is in the "flow" 
of the zine, but it's News Service covered the period 1531.12 to 
0723.27 [0ct 22, 3001 to Nov 12, 3001].
	Also included in this issue was a "Sophont Brief" on a new
alien race I had not encountered before the MEREN. If they ARE 
familiar to you, then anything I could say would not due this 
article justice, and if they are new to you also, and if you're 
tired of aliens who are genetically altered cats and dogs .... or
humans ... then I urge you to pony up $1.50 for at least issue #3
of MELBOURNE TIMES. It's worth it even if allyou use is the 
Sophont Brief. But I'm willing to bet you'll find a lot more of 
use in this, like:
	1 - Library Data. Short [1/2 page] but again close spaced
            8 point type, so there is a lot of data there.
	2 - Personafile - New NPCs for your campaign, this one,
            Benazir Chatterji would be suitable as a patron.
	3 - Worldscape/Starfield - although the physical genera- 
            tion of a system can be automated, the backround and 
            especially NAMEING everything is a pain in the...well
            you know what I mean!
	4 - And finally although it's not called the AMBER ZONE, 
            it is! An excellent adventure idea - utilizing dolphin
            characters.
All in all, MELBOURNE TIMES is well worth the $5.00 {$10.00 
overseas} that Dave and the guys want for their work. It's 21-24 
pages of hard data, NPCs and adventure ideas!

- -----Rick Blackburn
     StarTrek76@aol.com
     or
     R.BLACKBURN2@genie.geis.com

============================================

  



------------------------------

End of TML Bundle
******************
